People Magazine: Jenner "transitioning into a woman"

What do you mean other?

Do you support those? You remind me of the guy at Homerpalooza who didn't know anymore whether or not he was sarcastic. Is this whole bit your belief or gotcha or devils advocate or your slippery slope?

 

Are you sure? Many who "became a girl" didn't really end up happy afterward. Mike Penner went back to a man and then took his own life. Dr. V took her own life. It absolutely sucks, but that's the reality of it.

 

So it's important that she oozes with sex appeal as part of the deal, is that it?

 

I'm sure that at a moment in their lives Mike and Dr. V wanted to be women. Buyer's remorse may have kicked in but that's part of the process too sometimes.

Point being, it's their process for good and for worse. If we can't support them we ought to keep our noses out of their business.

 

I took the reference to plastic surgery for teens to mean something other than the final reconstructive surgery.

I took it to mean that some transgender teens are starting the process with things like breast augmentation, nose jobs, and the like.

 

I'm not sure it's even buyer's remorse.

Look, there are obviously a lot of issues that go along with being transgender. You don't like your own body, which sucks. But, you also face a lot of rejection and judgement -- often from family members, who you most want acceptance.

And, making the transition to the gender you identify with doesn't end that. I think the disappointment rests in the fact that it doesn't necessarily bring the happiness which is craved, and hoped for.

And, the rejection and judgement doesn't stop. Neither does the hatred of your own body. As many people like to point out, a transgender woman might never fit the definition of female beauty. So, even after making the transition, they feel like a freak and/or uncomfortable in their own skin.

After years of working towards a goal, and a place, where you think you will be happy, and not finding happiness, has to be devastating, don't you think?

 

Yes, and this is the reality that must be dealt with, preferably before undergoing surgery. Indeed, I would guess that this, in the end, is largely what all the counseling is for.

I can't speak about this issue with regard to gender identity and possible reassignment surgery, but I can when it comes to weight loss and surgical procedures to deal with morbid obesity, and I think it's probably pretty much the same.

One of the biggest things that is emphasized to gastric-bypass patients is that the surgery, in and of itself, will not, in most cases, really change a person's life all that much -- not unless the person, and their mindset, habits and lifestyle change forever for the better. And that is easy to say, not so much to actually do, over the long term, no matter what somebody looks like. It's an internal thing, not an external one.

Weight-loss surgery will not necessarily turn you into something you never were at heart to begin with. It will probably not suddenly gain you tons of friends you didn't have before. You will not necessarily suddenly find and keep a significant other or spouse if you never had one before. It is not likely to turn you into somebody who suddenly loves to exercise, even though, sure, you are more likely to be able to do it. It is unlikely to change your basic personality. In short, you are unlikely to become somebody that you're really not, anyway.

Unfortunately, this is what most patients hope for, and even expect: that surgery will change the person to a great extent. But what needs to happen is that the person needs to use the surgery and change, themselves.

Again, this is usually something that's easier said than done.

 

Gender identity and reassignment surgery are pretty much the same as gastric-bypass?

 

While I don't think gender reassignment surgery and gastric bypass surgery are pretty much the same, I'll defend the analogy.

If you don't already love and accept yourself, surgery -- be it a nose job, breast surgery, gastric bypass, or gender reassignment -- isn't likely to change that.

And, if you've imagined that you will be leading a new, glamorous life, filled with new friends, acceptance, and cocktail parties, as a result of your surgery, you will likely be disappointed.

It's also why therapy should be, and is, a big part of the process.

 

Thank you, YF.

No, they're not the same, procedurally, or, in terms of the depth of the internal matters.

But, it's the best, closest process that I can come up with -- and to which I can speak with any first-hand knowledge -- that involves great, potentially life-changing transitions, pretty thorough, advisable preparations for them, and yet, involves more need for internal change than most people realize in order to achieve long-term success.

Furthermore, although the procedure(s) can make life changes more possible, they are by no means guaranteed, and a patient's definition of the success of their surgery should not be based on whether such superficial changes actually happen.

And yes, I suspect the same is true for patients who undergo gender reassignment.

 

Simple solution to the gastric bypass dilemma: Put down the scalpel and the cheeseburger.

Problem solved. Not therapy necessary.

 

I'm glad it was that simple for you, DW.

It isn't for people who go to the lengths of having surgery. That simple enough for you?

You, by the way, are showing the same judgmental attitude that transgender people face. So again, yes, the parallels apply, at least to some extent.

Just to, you know, get things back on topic.