Indiana Gov. signs "religious freedom" bill into law

[Inky_Wretch]

That pizza joint has made more than $300,000 in donations because of this!?!

In that case, I'd like to announce I will not cater a same sex wedding either. Please give me money now.

 

[EStreetJoe]

Saturday night's full moon could be fun in Indiana ....
Wiccans say Indiana religious freedom law opens the door to polygamy, nude rituals at the Capitol

the bulk of the article...

The Daily Beast's David Freedlander spoke to Dusty Dionne, a High Priest and High Summoner of the Aquarian Tabernacle Church, who confessed that while he believes "these bills are horrible," they do provide a unique opportunity for practitioners of his faith.

"If they are going to up this can of worms," he said, "we are going to shove it right in their face." For example, he explained, many Wiccans believe "that love is the law," so while polygamous marriages are not a tenet of Wiccan theology, "whatever we want to do with marriage we can do. Carte blanche. If I want to marry a horse, I can marry a horse."

Wiccans would also legally be able to refuse drug tests in states with religious freedom laws, because "natural" substances like marijuana and hallucinogens are "herbs" used to enhance experience at officially sanctioned religious ceremonies. Moreover, Dionne explained, giving the blood or urine samples required for such tests would run contrary to their belief that the "body is a temple," and "if you come for a piece of my temple, I can say no."

They would also be free to dance naked on state Capitol steps so long as the moon was full, as a Wiccan holy text — "The Charge of the Goddess" — sanctions the practice.

 

[Starman]

Saturday night's full moon could be fun in Indiana ....
Wiccans say Indiana religious freedom law opens the door to polygamy, nude rituals at the Capitol

the bulk of the article...

No anchovies on my pizza.

 

[Songbird]

Saturday night's full moon could be fun in Indiana ....
Wiccans say Indiana religious freedom law opens the door to polygamy, nude rituals at the Capitol

the bulk of the article...

"If You Come for a Piece of My Temple (I Can Say No!)" is the best song title ever.

 

[SpeedTchr]

By a touch more modesty, I take it you mean that I should be understanding of the reasons for his bigotry?

He (and people like him) makes the world a worse place, in my opinion. Same as the person who wouldn't serve blacks. Same as the person who would discriminate against women. Or the person who wouldn't do business with Jews.

They all had their reasons.

It stems from small-mindedness, ignorance and hatred, I imagine. But it doesn't really matter what I imagine. And I am certain it doesn't matter to a gay person who has to live knowing there are people like Jim who sit in nonsensical judgment of them and will treat them poorly compared to others. Categorizing Jim's type of bigotry as a heartfelt conflict doesn't make it better bigotry.

I'll assume Jim has the power of reason. I don't care how heartfelt you tell me his conflict is. He's responsible for his decisions. And bigotry is bigotry.

What offends YOU? What is something that just goes against every fiber of your moral being (excluding the issue at hand)? Are you saying that there is nothing that would make you refuse to serve someone in your professional capacity, whatever that may be?

 

[Spartan Squad]

Saturday night's full moon could be fun in Indiana ....
Wiccans say Indiana religious freedom law opens the door to polygamy, nude rituals at the Capitol

the bulk of the article...

On its face, nude rituals for the moon sounds like a fantastic thing that I'd by popcorn to watch. However, I'm pretty sure none of us actually want to see any of the practicing wiccans in the buff. Put a spell on you indeed. Make your insides billow from your mouth, she will!

 

[Baron Scicluna]

BTW, this fix is somewhat of a sham. It only applies to the 11 communities in the state that already have ordinances banning discrimination against gays.

RFRA fix does not widely extend discrimination protections for LGBT, experts say

Clearly, they're just trying to do this to get everyone off their back for the Final Four and allow gays to feel welcome in Indy. As far as other spots in the state, well, they're shirt out of luck.

 

[Dick Whitman]

BTW, this fix is somewhat of a sham. It only applies to the 11 communities in the state that already have ordinances banning discrimination against gays.

RFRA fix does not widely extend discrimination protections for LGBT, experts say

Clearly, they're just trying to do this to get everyone off their back for the Final Four and allow gays to feel welcome in Indy. As far as other spots in the state, well, they're shirt out of luck.

The media has largely done a really poor job explaining this. Sexual orientation is not a protected class under the Civil Rights Act of 1964. So it is perfectly legal to discriminate against GBLT people in any state that doesn't specifically add them to its own civil rights statute.

The fix isn't a sham. It brings it back to the status quo. The law served two purposes: (1) A naked pander to the religious right; and (2) to trump the ordinances in those 11 cities and head off other communities that might do the same.

For being the side that's clearly winning, gay marriage supporters often do a horrible job framing the issues here. You aren't against "discrimination." You're OK if Harvard discriminates against stupid people. You're OK with senior citizen discounts and kids eat free. You are simply opposed to this particular kind of discrimination.

You don't think religious belief is a good enough reason to turn away this particular class. But why? They aren't just turning away gays from buying a sandwich. They are declining to participate in a ceremony they consider sinful. That's where you have to persuade right now - why is it not sinful? Why is the Bible wrong? Or, alternatively, why should they participate anyway? Browbeating people about "bigotry," I don't think, moved their needle at all. It puts them on the defensive, and also misunderstands what is driving them.

Also, the way that pizza parlor was treated was shameful, and will go down as a dark moment in the whole movement.

 

[Starman]

Don't worry about it too much; their Gofundme account is going wild, heading for half a million bucks or more.

Thirty seconds of gay-baiting paranoia on teevee, and they'll end up making more money than they'd make in 10 years of selling pizzas.

 

[Mr. Sunshine]

The media has largely done a really poor job explaining this. Sexual orientation is not a protected class under the Civil Rights Act of 1964. So it is perfectly legal to discriminate against GBLT people in any state that doesn't specifically add them to its own civil rights statute.

The fix isn't a sham. It brings it back to the status quo. The law served two purposes: (1) A naked pander to the religious right; and (2) to trump the ordinances in those 11 cities and head off other communities that might do the same.

For being the side that's clearly winning, gay marriage supporters often do a horrible job framing the issues here. You aren't against "discrimination." You're OK if Harvard discriminates against stupid people. You're OK with senior citizen discounts and kids eat free. You are simply opposed to this particular kind of discrimination.

You don't think religious belief is a good enough reason to turn away this particular class. But why? They aren't just turning away gays from buying a sandwich. They are declining to participate in a ceremony they consider sinful. That's where you have to persuade right now - why is it not sinful? Why is the Bible wrong? Or, alternatively, why should they participate anyway? Browbeating people about "bigotry," I don't think, moved their needle at all. It puts them on the defensive, and also misunderstands what is driving them.

Also, the way that pizza parlor was treated was shameful, and will go down as a dark moment in the whole movement.

Welcome back.

 

[The Big Ragu]

What offends YOU? What is something that just goes against every fiber of your moral being (excluding the issue at hand)? Are you saying that there is nothing that would make you refuse to serve someone in your professional capacity, whatever that may be?

Nope. Not saying anything like that. There are plenty of things that would make me refuse to serve someone in my professional capacity. I don't own a store, but if I did, for example, and someone came in and spit at me, I wouldn't serve them. I can think of a lot of other equally crappy things that someone might do that would make me tell them to fork off.

What offends me? Two things in particular with regard to this thread. 1) People who choose to discriminate against others because of a group or category they belong to (as opposed to judging people on their individual merits), particularly when it amounts to a majority group being oppressive toward a minority group, and 2) People who look down on, or judge,or discriminate against others, based on things that have absolutely no bearing on the person who is being discriminatory -- for example, discriminating against someone based on their sexual preferences. If you own a flower shop, and someone you don't know walks in with cash in hand to buy flowers, sell them flowers. A customer is a customer. Their sexuality should only matter to you if you are considering having a sexual relationship with them. Otherwise, stop being so hateful, or disapproving, of others because they are different than you.

 

[Vombatus]

Welcome back.

Looks like the inmates have been let out of the penalty box!

Reminds me of the song: Gotta keep 'em separated!