Baltimore

So which offenses should be ignored? Where do you draw the line? And more importantly, allowing people a wide berth in breaking the law doesn't help them, especially, as YF pointed out, in areas where law-breaking is seen as a legitimate alternative.

Would you advocate a parenting style in which children are not disciplined unless it's "something big?" You know that approach would be a disaster for teaching responsibility and providing context for getting along/succeeding in society.

And the white-collar argument is typical avoidance. You know full well that it in no way addresses the issue and doesn't help a single person trapped in the cycle of poverty and violence in places like Baltimore. But addressing that cycle and helping people escape it has never been the point. It's bad for business, so to speak.

 

I'm not going to speak for Ace, but I believe this is what he was getting at:

-- The argument is that going after turnstile jumpers led to discovery and prevention of more serious crimes.
-- Hence, increased vigilance in prosecuting illegal parking in NYC's financial district could lead to the discovery and prevention of more serious crimes like, say, fleecing investors and mortgage-holders and crippling our economy.
-- And, the fact that the former happens while the latter does not is a huge factor in breeding the resentment that fuels eruptions like this.

 

Not to get on a tangent, but defining "terrible teachers" is an extremely difficult and subjective process that is borderline impossible without direct violations of rules and protocols. Measuring the success or failure of a teacher is a much more difficult task than evaluating a police officer. I'd personally leave the teachers out of this particular discussion.

 

There are lots of problems with ignoring the "low hanging fruit".

If you do, it grows. So, you let a guy sell "loosies" outside of a convenience store. What's the next step.

One guy drinking a beer while walking down the street might not be a problem. But, if you loosen up on drug enforcement, drug dealing will soon be done in your local playground, and in the doorway of your building. (OK, not your playground, or building in Whitelandia, but in the playground and doorway in the poor, inner city.)

And, now you've got a big problem. And, when you go and try and crack down on it, you're going to have additional resentment, because you've allowed it to go on up until now.

 

I don't have time to do a complete lit review. So understand I'm missing both breadth and depth here but:

Reduction in violent crime in new york city mirrored that in other large cities, including those which didn't use BW.
Also violent crime peaked and started decreasing before BW was instituted, mirroring national trends.

Basically - violent crime decreased in NYC for the same reasons it decreased elsewhere, whatever those were, regardless of the policing theory implemented in the city.

 

If that is the argument, it would be categorically incorrect. Detaining the turnstile jumpers aids police in capturing suspects who have a warrant out for their arrest, or finding and confiscating illegal weapons. Arresting a financier for illegal parking would not allow police to uncover embezzlement or fraud.

 

Let's try not to be silly, ok?

Arresting a turnstile jumper leeds to his being frisked, which could lead to the discovery of an illegal gun. It also would lead to the discovery of outstanding warrants.

The correlation to parking on Wall St. isn't there.

(And, btw, parking is enforced with a zeal in lower Manhattan, especially around the NYSE.)

 

Yeah, I'm sure lax enforcement of parking in NYC's financial district is a recurring theme around the dinner tables in Baltimore.

 

And we're back to parking ...

It's like an sj.com-version of Godwin's Law ... as the number of posts grows, the probability that the discussion will turn to Britt McHenry approaches 1.

 

Every principal knows who the bad teachers are.

Bad teachers and bad schools are a huge part of the problem in the inner city.

The same reasons why we can't fire bad cops are why we can't fire bad teachers. And, the left -- as evidence by your post -- doesn't want to admit to this.

Take a look at what the city of Baltimore spends per child on education, and then tell me we haven't "invested" in these neighborhoods. Then tell me what we're getting for our "investment" and how we avoid spending good money after bad.

I'm told the answer is to spend more money on these problems. OK. Let's continue to fund failure, and see where it gets us.

 

OK, so perhaps the literal comparison doesn't hold up. Good thing I'm not actually speaking for Ace.

Still, IMO, it stands as evidence that we as a society sometimes seek out prosecutable criminal conduct with unequal zeal.

 

Which cities didn't implement "broken windows" style policing to some degree?

There's a reason why cities from LA to Philadelphia, Miami, Baltimore, Newark, Chicago and others hired ex-NYPD to lead their departments.

Cities across the country instated COMPSTAT type of computerized metrics for tracking and identifying crime areas, for deploying resources, and for holding commanders responsible.

Cities across the country implemented their own version of the "street crime unit" to take guns of the street, and implemented their own version of stow, question, and frisk.