With gay marriage decided, what will be the next big left-led social change?

[BDC99]

It's really ridiculous to discuss these parties as they were in the 19th century, for they are in many ways reversals of what they are now.

Forget about the 1864 Republican party. Go to 1964. Barry Goldwater would be called a flaming liberal by today's GOP.

Thank you. Was thinking the same thing but didn't really want to wade into it.

 

[Baron Scicluna]

Hey Baron, check out the congressional votes on the 13th Amendment sometime.

Yep. An awful lot of liberals voted to pass it.

The conservatives were mostly in Richmond.

 

[Baron Scicluna]

*Baron Googles 13th Amendment*

Well, I could use Yahoo, I suppose.

 

[Stoney]

It's really ridiculous to discuss these parties as they were in the 19th century, for they are in many ways reversals of what they are now.

Forget about the 1864 Republican party. Go to 1964. Barry Goldwater would be called a flaming liberal by today's GOP. It's only a slight coincidence that Goldwater's running mate's daughter is uber-liberal radio talk show host Stephanie Miller.

Bullseye. A telltale signal that lets you know when someone is a simple headed laundry-cheering political fanboy without historical understanding (and, btw, Old Tony is the absolute worst at this): when they discuss the political parties as if they've always been the same thing representing the same people.

Utter hogwash. A huge percentage of those who identified themselves as Republicans over a century ago would label themselves Dems today (Northeasterners, "progressives", African Americans, etc), and a huge percentage of those who identified themselves as Democrats up to the 1960s would label themselves Republicans today (rural Southern whites, evangelical Christians, social conservatives, etc.) heck, geographically the R and D map was once a virtual flip flop from what it is today. What these parties were over a half century ago is irrelevant to what they are now.

 

[doctorquant]

... btw, Old Tony is the absolute worst at this ...

Ahem ...

 

[YankeeFan]

Bullseye. A telltale signal that lets you know when someone is a simple headed laundry-cheering political fanboy without historical understanding (and, btw, Old Tony is the absolute worst at this): when they discuss the political parties as if they've always been the same thing representing the same people.

Utter hogwash. A huge percentage of those who identified themselves as Republicans over a century ago would label themselves Dems today (Northeasterners, "progressives", African Americans, etc), and a huge percentage of those who identified themselves as Democrats up to the 1960s would label themselves Republicans today (rural Southern whites, evangelical Christians, social conservatives, etc.) heck, geographically the R and D map was once a virtual flip flop from what it is today. What these parties were over a half century ago is irrelevant to what they are now.

You know, I might, might, believe you if there was some evidence that the modern Democratic Party had disowned the terrible racists in their party's history.

Have they?

Has Andrew Jackson been disowned? Or do local Democratic parties honor him by holding Jefferson-Jackson Dinners?

Was Robert Byrd disowned, or did he die an honored, elder statesman of the party?

What about J. William Fulbright? Are Dems embarrassed by any association with him, or is he hailed as Bill Clinton's mentor, and does the U.S. Department of State still sponsor a grant program named for him?

Is Richard Russell Jr. a name never to be spoken by Democrats, or do many of them have offices in the Russell Senate Office Building?

Is Woodrow Wilson remembered as a racist, or is there an institute named in his honor at the Smithsonian Institute?

You want to change the names of military bases that are named after Confederate generals? Sure. OK. I'm for it.

But, who will join me in stripping the name of off buildings, and institutes, dinners, and grant programs named for prominent racist Democrats? Anyone?

Let's start with former KKK member Robert Byrd, since it will probably take the longest time, as so many things are named for him:

List of places named after Robert Byrd - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[YankeeFan]

Who said this about Fulbright:

We come to celebrate and give thanks for the remarkable life of J. William Fulbright, a life that changed our country and our world forever and for the better. . . . In the work he did, the words he spoke and the life he lived, Bill Fulbright stood against the 20th century's most destructive forces and fought to advance its brightest hopes.

 

[doctorquant]

The idea that there's some congruence between the left-right divide (as understood since, say, the 1920s) and that of the mid-19th century is perhaps one of the lame-brain-iest things ever floated around here.

 

[Stoney]

Seriously, YF, who gives a shirt?

My voting decisions are based upon what positions the candidates/parties take on the issues in TODAY's world--because that's what makes an actual difference in people's lives--not what some dead guy who happened to once be affiliated with the same party might've thought back in some bygone era. I would not have voted for Robert Byrd, and Robert Byrd would not be a dem if he were entering politics in today's era, and Robert Byrd is dead and has no impact whatsoever on policy now, so I really don't give much of a fork about him. Arguing over what you're trying to argue about is just political shirt throwing purely for the sake of throwing shirt.

 

[BTExpress]

But, who will join me in stripping the name of off buildings, and institutes, dinners, and grant programs named for prominent racist Democrats?

First things first: Gotta get Ty Cobb out of the Hall of Fame.

 

[Baron Scicluna]

Seriously, YF, who gives a shirt?

My voting decisions are based upon what positions the candidates/parties take on the issues in TODAY's world--because that's what makes an actual difference in the real world and people's lives--not what some other dead guy who happened to once be affiliated with the same party might've thought back in some bygone era. I would not have voted for Robert Byrd, and Robert Byrd would not be a dem if he were coming up now, and Robert Byrd is dead and has no impact whatsoever on policy today, so I really don't give much of a fork about him. Arguing over the crap you're trying to argue about is just political shirt throwing purely for the sake of shirt throwing.

Which is why the Republican Party is constantly flailing.

You know what? I might have been concerned about BENGHAZI! If the Republicans had shown the same concern over the previous dozen attacks on embassies during the Bush Administration, chosen to hold hearings over our failures in Iraq and hadn't fought so hard to investigate what went wrong that led to 9/11.

I might have been concerned about REVEREND WRIGHT!!! If they shared the same concern over Mike Huckabee, who wants to force everyone to watch at gunpoint some schmoe named David Barton spew his bullshirt.

I might have been concerned about MONICA!!! That is, if Newt, Livingston, etc. weren't cheating on their wives as well. Actually, scratch that. I don't give a shirt who cheats on their wife, as long as they don't lecture others on morals.

I might have been concerned that Obama is a CELEBRITY!!!!!. That is, if every president eschewed it.

The GOP constantly spews out bullshirt that have nearly zero direct impact on the lives of Americans, and it doesn't change anyone's mind. All it does is distract from real issues.

 

[Riptide]

Which is why the Republican Party is constantly flailing.

You know what? I might have been concerned about BENGHAZI! If the Republicans had shown the same concern over the previous dozen attacks on embassies during the Bush Administration, chosen to hold hearings over our failures in Iraq and hadn't fought so hard to investigate what went wrong that led to 9/11.

I might have been concerned about REVEREND WRIGHT!!! If they shared the same concern over Mike Huckabee, who wants to force everyone to watch at gunpoint some schmoe named David Barton spew his bullshirt.

I might have been concerned about MONICA!!! That is, if Newt, Livingston, etc. weren't cheating on their wives as well. Actually, scratch that. I don't give a shirt who cheats on their wife, as long as they don't lecture others on morals.

I might have been concerned that Obama is a CELEBRITY!!!!!. That is, if every president eschewed it.

The GOP constantly spews out bullshirt that have nearly zero direct impact on the lives of Americans, and it doesn't change anyone's mind. All it does is distract from real issues.

Please stick to the narrative.