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Hulkamania

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Dick Whitman, Jul 24, 2015.

  1. Baron Scicluna

    Baron Scicluna Well-Known Member

    The unfortunate thing about Henry is apparently the powers that be were never crazy about him because he didn't live up to his early potential and had heat with Michael Hayes over the (really bad) racist stuff.

    Apparently a few years back, they played a rib on him, and the fans, by having him come out after a Smackdown taping for a dark (no pun intended non-wrestling fans, it means non-televised) match. He made his entrance, waited about 20 minutes, while they played some other entrance themes, then had nobody come out. Supposedly, Henry was quite justifiably pissed.

    Racial whistleblower Mark Henry is tormented again by WWE management - Cageside Seats

    Frankly, if I were him, I would have grabbed the mic, apologized for the E treating the fans poorly, and announced that the E would refund everyone's money. Hilarity ensues backstage.
     
  2. sgreenwell

    sgreenwell Well-Known Member

    Since I'm seemingly the only wrestling fan to think they do have a race problem here... I view it akin to the issue of minority coaches in the NFL. Yes, there are only 32 GM and 32 head coaching jobs, and there have been some who have gotten to those positions. But thanks to cronyism or the lack of proper networking, only 7 (or so) GMs are black, and 6 head coaches are. Yeah, it's hard to become a champion, but guys like Sheamus (workout buddy of Triple H) have had two title runs, and it seems like black wrestlers get shooed into comedy acts (R-Truth) or tag teams (Prime Time Players, New Day) more frequently.
     
  3. sgreenwell

    sgreenwell Well-Known Member

    MVP has also been outspoken about their being a "glass ceiling" for black performers, and that's part of the reason he ultimately left. He thought he would be stranded in the mid and upper-midcard for the rest of his career.
     
  4. 93Devil

    93Devil Well-Known Member

    You are just so mad at them because none of your employees are certified to hard wire or do plumbing work so you are forced to hire out people that know what they are doing. Right?

    You know, if you didn't post all day you could get your licenses for both and your employees could work under your license.
     
    Riptide likes this.
  5. Stoney

    Stoney Well-Known Member

    I find it amusing that you guys keep emphasizing the need to have the right "look" in a discussion about why McMahon never picks black champions. Ummm, you don't think skin color might be part of this "look" needed to be champion that he's looking for?

    Yeah, that's kinda the whole point. And wrasslin fans don't perceive and react to African Americans the same way they do white wrestlers, and the boss man who picks the champs knows it.

    McMahon's just doing what astute businessmen do, trying to put out the product his customer base wants. And his customer base is overwhelmingly white, of a disproportionately undereducated redneck bent, and not at all interested in seeing something else that blacks dominate in addition to football, basketball, etc. So he gives them this alternative fantasy world where the charismatic white guy gets to be the king of the physical world. Naming black champs would ruin the illusion.

    Sorry, but I just find the notion that the absence of black champions is because of insufficient "talent" to be laughable, especially in a phony sport where there's no such thing as an objective way to measure talent. The real reason there are never black champions is simply because McMahon knows that's not the product that his customers want.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2015
  6. Batman

    Batman Well-Known Member

    I'll acknowledge there have been some problems with racism. As Baron noted, Michael Hayes was notorious for it. IIRC, back in the 60s or 70s, it almost caused a riot when Bobo Brazil won the title at a house show. Even more recently, like you point out, black wrestlers haven't exactly been booked in a way that fans always take them seriously.
    That said, there's also a counterpoint for the booking and using the lack of a black WWE champion as evidence of institutional racism is not the best argument. There's a hundred different things that go into that decision, and when you look at the crop of candidates it's a pretty shallow talent pool. If we're using the NFL coaches analogy, there have been a lot more Raheem Morrises in the WWE than there have been Mike Tomlins.
    In this era where there's a lot of smart fans and critics, the position on the card isn't itself evidence of racism. Of the black wrestlers currently in WWE, are there any you -- as one of the smart fans with a critical eye -- can point to that have been considered "held down" in an obvious or questionable manner?
    Kofi Kingston? He had one small moment in time where he could've broken out, but he's settled about where his talent seems to lie.
    Big E? Never really wowed anyone.
    Xavier Woods? Still a newcomer to the company.
    Titus O'Neill and Darren Young? Good as a tag team, terrible on their own.
    R-Truth? Had a great, but brief heel run in a feud against Cena and then seemed to hit his stride as a comedy act and settled there.
    Mark Henry? I've broken down his case already. He likely was held back early in his career, but feels like more of a late bloomer.
    Booker T? Probably missed his window to be a truly memorable champion because of the backstage politics -- of WCW vs. WWE, not necessarily black vs. white. Looking back, though, he was one of the lucky ones of that era.
    MVP? Great in-ring performer, but I don't know if he ever wowed anyone to the point where they can say he should've been given a world championship run.
     
  7. 93Devil

    93Devil Well-Known Member

    Wrestling is nothing more than a soap opera that men watch. Instead of "fucking," like they do in a soap opera, they "fight" in wrestling.

    And in any dramatic presentation you have protagonists and antagonists, and the one thing I truly love about wrestling is the ability to create a great antagonist and a great protagonist.

    If you cannot appreciate the hatred Kaufman created in his wrestling bit, then I feel bad for you because what he did was magnificent.

    And the 13:25 portion of this video is one of the great moments in "sports" history.

     
  8. 93Devil

    93Devil Well-Known Member

    Another example of a great story line... crowd going ape shit at the end...

     
  9. Baron Scicluna

    Baron Scicluna Well-Known Member


    I think the current numbers are 13 percent of the American population is black, so when you think about it, in proportion to the overall population, the NFL is actually quite diverse, as hard as it may be to believe.

    One other factor, and you hear this a lot now with baseball and boxing, is how many African-Americans are growing up deciding that they want to be pro wrestlers for a career? An African-American athlete may be trying for the NFL, or the NBA, or one of the lower pro leagues, instead of becoming a pro wrestler, where the odds of making it to the big time are just as big, if not bigger, than the pro sport they are choosing.

    I looked at the E's roster list, and discounting any managers, security guards, announcers, (s Lawler doesn't count) or part-timers (not counting Rock or Undertaker), I came up with 12 out of 70 wrestlers, both male and female, being African-American, which is about 17 percent of the roster. That's pretty much in proportion with the rest of the population.

    The list:
    Henry, R-Truth, Woods, Kofi, Big E, Titus, Young, Otunga (still around) Cameron, Naomi, Alicia, Sasha
     
  10. sgreenwell

    sgreenwell Well-Known Member

    I find it hard to believe that it's so hard to find African Americans with the right athleticism for wrestling when they dominate so many other professional sports. Plus, regardless of the U.S. demographics on African Americans, it's hard to believe they don't make up a good percentage of the viewing audience.

    I also think you're really downplaying the Michael Hayes thing - He was a booker and the friggin' head writer for Smackdown for a couple years. Ultimately with that company, the buck stops with Vince McMahon, yes. And he's been in control for such a long time that it's hard to see the lack of a black champion for the main belt, and the midcard and upper midcard ceiling for most, as anything but race-related. I don't know if he's intentionally booking them down as he strokes his chin, Snidely Whiplash style, or if it's just an unconscious thing ingrained in their booking. In isolation, all of their booking decisions are defensible, but when you look over their last past 10, 15 years, it just seems nutty that they haven't had a prominent black star.
     
  11. JimmyHoward33

    JimmyHoward33 Well-Known Member

    Was Sheamus ever actually WWE champion or was he big gold belt champion? It seems unfair to "not count" the Booker T and Mark Henry reigns but to count Sheamus as a case for racism at the top. I tuned out for a few years but the only Sheamus title reign I remember was big gold belt (which at various times during the brand split was considered a higher title on the card than the other one too). In my mind as a fan, Booker and Mark surely count.

    Also if we're going on a 15-20 year systematic racism idea.....you can't just gloss over the fact that The Rock is not white. Arguably the biggest star in the history of the business besides Hogan, with a much much more successful Hollywood transition.
     
  12. Batman

    Batman Well-Known Member

    You can't exactly force them at gunpoint to enroll in a wrestling school. I suppose WWE could do a better job of actively recruiting black athletes, maybe a diversity program to up the numbers at the performance center, but at the end of the day they still have to be more than a great athlete. They also have to want to do it. It's been well-documented how difficult the lifestyle is, and that it's not for everyone. As clichéd as it is, you really do have to have a passion for the business that goes beyond, "Well, I'm a great athlete so this is something I can do."
     
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