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Here's what fast food will cost with $17 an hour wages

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Doom and gloom, Jul 31, 2015.

  1. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    1) Demand for fast food is probably as elastic as demand is for most things. At higher prices, demand will undoubtedly fall off -- squeezing margins and income.
    2) You'd expect fast food restaurants, as Ace pointed out, to continue to push the trend of automating, and to the extent they can, do more with less in that environment. The ones that can't do that and be able to maintain any sort of margins, as Dick pointed out, won't be able to stay in business., and the ones that can jump through those hoops due to their scale, obviously will be employing fewer people.
    3) Which is why, the truth is that the actual minimum wage is (and will remain for even more people) $0.
     
    doctorquant likes this.
  2. Ace

    Ace Well-Known Member

    You're way too pessimistic, Rags.

    They can take those $17 workers, pump 'em full of HGH and steroids, mix them with some chicken parts and pink slime and they'll be fine.
     
  3. Starman

    Starman Well-Known Member

    If McDonald's thinks it can get people to pay $3.99 for a Big Mac instead of $3.69, they'll jack up the prices tomorrow morning. What they're paying out in wages has nothing to do with it.
     
    cranberry and doctorquant like this.
  4. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    You'd assume McDonald's sets prices at a spot that maximizes its profits. That is what successful businesses do. So to the extent that there are customers who want what McDonald's offers, McDonald's average price point is at the spot that attracts the optimal volume of customers relative to that average price point. That is how you maximize your profits.

    Within that model, for example, it might have a "value" menu where it sells a few items at a loss, knowing that a certain percentage of people it attracts will buy higher margin items once they are in the restaurant.

    They spend a lot of time trying to get these things right and they experiment a lot.

    Wages are a cost input of running a McDonald's. If you have a law or regulation that mandates higher labor costs for McDonald's, of course it changes that pricing dynamic for its food. Depending on how much more that labor costs, it either makes each McDonald's unprofitable. ... less profitable but still optimally priced. ... or less profitable and less optimally priced.

    Ways to try deal with that might be to raise the food prices, try to employ fewer workers, automate or do a combination of all of those things. Those solutions could work, because presumably those higher labor costs would also hit all of McDonald's competitors, too, who will have to react the same way. But the results of that regulation are going to be some combination of: 1) Fewer workers earning more, 2) Some previously employed workers who now earn $0, and 3) Customers paying more for their food -- IF McDonald's can raise prices and still remain profitable.
     
  5. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    Some customers will pay more. Other customers will pay a helluva lot less -- i.e., they'll pay $0.

    Some employees will remain employed. Others will become unemployed. And a lot of potential employees will never be hired.

    But one thing is abso-friggin-lutely certain: Jejune b.s. of the sort linked to in the original post will NEVER go out of style. Because, apparently, the world has an unlimited supply of people who think businesses won't react to a 67% increase (89% if we're talking $17 an hour) in the cost of a particular input.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2015
  6. amraeder

    amraeder Well-Known Member

    Yes and no.
    Part of what keeps McDonald's cost low is the fact that they have to compete with Wendy's, Burger King, etc. They can't unilaterally raise prices now because that would send some of their market share to burger King and Wendy's. When a raise of minimum wage forces everyone to raise the cost of the labor, they don't have to worry as much about that type of tradeoff. So it's not exactly analogous.

    I thought it might cost them business to fast casual places like Panera, but it looks like Panera pays its workers roughly what McDonald's does, so it'd be impacted the same by a rise in labor costs.
    Maybe they'd lose market share to places like TGI Fridays, who aren't impacted by the increase as much, since part of their staff isn't bound by minimum wage laws, but TGI Friday's would be impacted some (line cooks make less than $15/hr it seems) and they'd still be more expensive and not nearly as fast as McDonald's.
    The biggest cost of market share might very well be just staying home. Though the amount of people for whom $0.15-$0.30 is the line where they stay home or go to McDonald's is probably very small.

    While I'm for a minimum wage increase, i'm fairly hesitant about a jump to $15, for the record (I'm not sure where the golden mean is, i just worry $15 overshoots it). But I just want to acknowledge that "that'd be the cost" now is slightly simplistic, because now they'd lose more market share with a unilateral cost increase than they would if everyone's costs increased.
     
  7. cranberry

    cranberry Well-Known Member

    Nobody expects business not to react. Business can knock itself out. Businesses should act in their own best interests. There is, however, a calculation that well-considered minimum wage laws will have a net positive impact.

    I also think people have little tolerance for chamber-of-commerce whining during a period of generally stagnant wages and extremely healthy corporate profit.
     
  8. BTExpress

    BTExpress Well-Known Member

    A lot of people own McDonald's stock. They want (well, demand) to see that stock grow.

    A smaller profit, while no big deal to us looking at it on the outside, means the stock will struggle to grow. Stockholders likely won't stand for that. Nor should they. They are no less important than anyone else affected by all of this.
     
  9. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    This isn't some bullshit "calculation." Whatever the net impact will be, it will mean some combination of unemployed people who used to have jobs and /or higher prices for consumers.

    It's not "whining" when your ability to freely do business is negatively impacted by interference being spurred on by populist BS, anymore than if I reached into your wallet and took enough so that you can't pay your mortgage, you'd be whining.

    Secondly, corporate profits are largely stagnant right now -- as much as you want to make mealy generalizations like that to try to avoid addressing specifics. But this isn't about "corporate profits." (which by the way, in the case of McDonald's have been falling off a cliff the past several quarters -- without these laws that increase their costs). It's actually only about certain businesses --fast food restaurants that largely rely on low-skilled workers and pay them what the market dictates for those jobs.

    To the extent that includes McDonald's, wages aren't set by some "corporate" entity. They are largely set by franchisees (90 percent of McDonald's are franchised), who can pay only as little as the market allows -- if they pay too little, they can't attract workers. Those franchisees are not running super high margin businesses. And the startup costs and investment was very high, meaning if this puts them out of business they are SOL and have lost millions of dollars. So no, there is no "net positive impact" for those franchisees any more than there will be for the scores of unemployed people this creates.
     
  10. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    This was well considered? By whom?

    Where did the $15 wage come from?
     
  11. amraeder

    amraeder Well-Known Member

    I don't think he's saying $15 is well considered per se. He's talking in generalities about minimum wage laws. If it's well considered, it will do more good than harm. He's not saying what price point strong consideration would land at. At least that's my reading.
     
  12. cranberry

    cranberry Well-Known Member

    That would be correct. The issue is important at a federal level but much more important and effectively administered at the local level. The federal number is just a low-bar labor standard.
     
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