Mass shooting on campus in Oregon

I'm just thinking along the lines of Flight 93. It's a matter of recognizing quickly that standing by is a death sentence, so there's really nothing to lose.

 

Of course. But it's not that simple. See my previous post.

 

Why is the default position that everyone who buys a gun is or remains "untrained"?

And why do we assume the perpetrator isn't just as untrained?

 

I don't think your point should be ridiculed. These situations put people into high-intensity fight or flight situations and, in many (maybe even most?) cases, you're right: Standing by may get you killed.

The question at hand is whether more citizens carrying firearms will increase or decrease the frequency and lethality of these mass shootings. We know that only one of these situations has been stopped by a civilian carrying a gun. More have been stopped by civilians simply tackling the shooter (in some cases, getting shot in the process). In many others, the shooter ends it himself by either surrender or suicide.

 

One slight difference between Flight 93 and this incident, and perhaps others. The Flight 93 people had time to find out what was going to happen, knew they were going to be killed, and had a chance to formulate a plan.

Someone walks into a classroom with bunch of guns, and shoots, there's not much time to react, one way or another.

 

Yup. In fact, this incident included a guy charging the shooter and taking -- I believe -- seven bullets. I also haven't seen it noted on this thread that the shooter did take his own life. I'm not sure how that plays out with the one guy charging him and knocking him over. If the shooter took his own life, he most certainly wasn't incapacitated or disarmed by the guy who charged him. But that act probably saved a number of lives by stopping the executions.

 

Both valid points. Of course, permit owners are trained in gun safety and some are likely military or law enforcement. But I don't think there are nearly as many people as you think who are prepared to actually shoot someone and be calm and accurate enough to do so.

 

I don't think we assume that everyone who buys a gun is untrained. I just think they aren't likely to have the kind of training required for these types of situations.

 

Another good guy with a gun.

Witness accidentally shoots carjacking victim trying to stop thieves

 

Maybe. They're still in a much better position than an unarmed person, wouldn't you agree?

 

My understanding is that the guy tried to block the door, was shot (he's a hero, no doubt) and the shooting continued. I believe the shooter was wounded by police before he took his own life.

 

Don't forget that old-ass deputy who killed a guy because he "thought" he was using a taser.