Why are Asian-Americans so successful in America?

I really haven't assumed you've meant "conservative policies." That's not a phrase I would associate with you. Besides, were you taking that route you'd add in a "the other side" or two, and maybe throw in a hashtag for good measure.

However, I have assumed that you're advocating for different policy. And I -- and YF, too, I think -- are a bit skeptical regarding how effective policy might be, given how well it's worked so far.

P.S. As re: the LBJ argument, I certainly don't think he (and those of like mind) did so deliberately.

 

Have you considered that the reason might not be due to cultural development in the United States as much as elsewhere centuries before they immigrated here?

I'd point out that Confucianism played a huge role in defining the cultural values of nations throughout East Asia (particularly China, Korea and Japan), and a core tenet of Confucianism is the emphasis on education and study as part of spiritual development, and I believe plainly more so than Western and African religious traditions. It isn't a situation where Asians arrived here and then decided "hey we should start valuing education", but rather that was already a value deeply ingrained in their cultures that they brought with them.

Now, I'll warn you, Dick, if your next words are along the lines of "but Why does Confucianism value education?" I might punch you in the nose through the internet...

 

I'm not advocating for any policy. That's a different debate for a different day.

But people here seem skeptical - some seem downright angered - about the idea that something other than their own choices, divorced from history, policy, geography, and other outside forces, have held down the African-American population.

 

Not at all. I don't dismiss the idea that public policy a major factor, and I know you're open minded enough to consider the failures of of both liberal and conservative policies.

My problem with liberal policies -- and their advocates -- in general, is that when they fail, we're told that's it's because they didn't go far enough; that we didn't spend enough.

 

How we help people to help themselves, and to what degree our policies encourage certain behavior is at the heart of the matter.

Here's one side of the debate:

 

Because they're good at cutting hair? [/crossthread]

 

I think that when you look at broad categories of people, it's irrefutable that African-Americans suffer because of history, policy, geography, etc.

But, I think it's also irrefutable that when someone -- in conjunction with their parent(s) -- is determined to overcome these obstacles, they can.

Isn't a huge portion of this how we communicate to people that it is possible, and show them that they do have the tools?

 

"Just keep voting for us. Eventually WE will fix everything. I promise."

 

But they don't. Not broadly. That's a policy failure.

Yes.

 

Asians, Europeans, Jewish, Hispanic cultures in America all have 1 thing in common, the nuclear family as the core unit of living. African American culture does not. There are nuclear families in African American culture and they are considered good. But they are not the dominant unit as it is and was in the other American demographic. And it isn't just a blip on the generational time line, that status replicates interleaf and has for 3-4 generations now

 

I would like to emphasize as re: this whole "certain cultures value this" and "certain cultures value that" bit ... the risk of slipping into cliche -- and therefore into well-intentioned but misguided paternalism -- is strong no matter which culture you're talking about. For example, I have a hard time squaring the "Asians' generations-old embrace of Confucianism leads them to especially value education" argument with the fact that Asian students (especially Chinese students) are among the absolute worst cheaters in higher education.

 

Sure, we can communicate it or it can just be part of their community.

Native Americans are another group treated horribly from the founding of this nation on, who have never thrived overall.

If you come from a community that doesn't have a lot of successful doctors, engineers, business owners, etc., only the outliers aspire to that. If you come from a community where that is common and expected, a large percent of the population sees that as a goal or mandate and makes it happen.