Why are Asian-Americans so successful in America?

It's a thread about race.

 

Besides, it seems like a dereliction of our duty as Americans to not talk about race when the two that have faced the most historical hardship here - blacks and Native Americans - continue to struggle. We have to do better by them.

 

It's never a good thing when the people trusted with fixing the problems benefit the most from those problems persisting.

 

What?

 

That's the law firm paradox: We benefit financially when we fail to get a case dismissed for our client.

 

Perfect for a race-baiter.

 

Dick,

No one knows what to say to you anymore about this. Contributing factors -- many of them -- have been alluded to, suggested, discussed -- and tossed away by you as weak explanations.

And maybe, by themselves, they are inadequate. But together, they all are among the reasons for a cycle of failure, or at least, lesser "success," when compared to another race.

I believe that cycle is, itself, largely responsible for blacks' struggles. That is, African-Americans generally don't emphasize/value education as much as, say, Asian-Americans because, well, because they never have, so that value is not taught, emphasized AND is rarely experienced as making a significant difference in life, and therefore, it is not pursued or perpetuated as much as, say, the idea of the possibility of success in athletics (to use the stereotypical example).

Whatever anyone's abilities, though, success usually breeds more success, and failure (often) is self-perpetuating, too...unless it is consciously and purposefully interrupted and stopped. But that takes time, attention, effort and work, on the part of parents, teachers, mentors, and especially, the affected individuals themselves. You've held this whole discussion without ever once saying that people have any responsibility for themselves and what happens to them.

But they do.

Nobody here thinks blacks, as a race, are inferior. I would suggest, however, that they do have an inferiority complex. Given their history and many still-existing issues and obstacles, that's not surprising. I also wouldn't suggest that other races (particularly whites) had no part in causing it.

As with individuals who struggle with issues of self-worth and self-respect, however, an inferiority complex is difficult to overcome. But it still can only be truly done by the persons themselves.

Another poster (I can't remember for sure who it was -- but Ace, I think) also rightly asked whether your posts referred to the issue of status or success? That's a good questions because, like beauty, success really is in the eye of the beholder. As someone in a blue-collar job myself, I wouldn't necessarily consider someone who's in a blue-collar job to be a failure.

You shouldn't do it, either.

 

This simply isn't accurate. When someone has suggested or discussed a potential contributing factor, be it slavery, Jim Crow, ancient Chinese leadership, or the Civil Rights Act, I have been more than willing to consider it. When someone has simply suggested or discussed a symptom - such as, "Asians value education" - I have challenged that, and justifiably so. Of course Asians value education. And of course African-Americans (speaking very generally here) do not. The first post here posited that the rise of Asian-Americans in America may mean that "the age of discrimination is over." In other words, African-Americans now only have themselves to blame for their spot on the ladder of society. I reject that premise.

Yes, I agree with all of this. I've said so on this thread. I want to know why they are in this cycle to begin with. No one here would posit, I don't think, that blacks are biologically inferior when it comes to intellect. So why has it played out that way? My educated guess is that slavery is the root. Yes, there have been times, such as after the great migration, when at least portions of black society have seemed positioned to finally get over the hump. But they are a basketball team, basically, that fell behind by 20 points in the first half. They're playing from behind. And even if they cut it to single digits on occasion, the gamer will rightfully focus on that early deficit, when the game was truly lost.

This is really not relevant. We're not discussing what occurs on an individual level. Yes, among millions of people, an occasional Ben Carson will rise from the pack. If you are waiting for this to occur on a race-wide scale, then you are going to be waiting a long time. My son is in first grade, he reads at a third- or fourth-grade level. Down the road a few miles, in Gary, there are kids probably just as smart as him, naturally, who are still learning the alphabet. Tell me: At what point did those kids shirk their responsibility "for themselves and what happens to them"? Alternatively, at what point will they be old enough to simply take "responsibility for themselves" and close the gap?

Nobody?

There is nothing that biologically separates blacks from other races, intellectually. So why do they struggle? There is plenty of push back here, and always has been, against any answer that assigns responsibility to outside forces. Their gritty Irish great grandfather came here on a boat. He's pulled himself up by the bootstraps. Why can't those blacks do the same?

That's very noble of you, considering we kidnapped them from their home continent, enslaved them en masse, broke up their families and, 100 years later, still wouldn't let them use the same drinking fountain as us. Or marry a white person.

I know, right? Those blacks. Why can't they just all at once pull themselves up by their bootstraps?

This is a nifty switcheroo. The problem isn't that blacks are working blue-collar jobs. As I've said before, my dad stocked shelves at Wal-Mart for the last decade of his life, at least. He worked a second job at a Christmas tree lot, seasonally, when I was a kid. That is when he wasn't laid off from his primary job, which he eventually lost. I have three best friends from high school that I see frequently. One is a plumber. One is a mechanic. One, a black guy, works at the steel mill. (He's the only one of the three with a college degree, though the mechanic has an associate's degree.) These are my people. No, the problem isn't that blacks have blue-collar jobs. It's that blacks - the ones who aren't in prison - don't have jobs at all. Or have minimum wage jobs and can't pay for a roof over their head or food for their children.

 

I think it's really bizarre, and somewhat amusing, that people are are offended or upset by Dick's posts, or think he's race baiting.

If you're going to get to the heart of the matter, you have to go beyond, "well, they don't value education."

Maybe that't true, but the fix for not valuing education is not to simply tell some large group to start valuing education. There must be reasons why this situation exists/developed, and you have to address the underlying reasons/problems if you want to actually fix the problem.

 

When I was in high school, Indiana was considering going to multiple class high school basketball for the first time. They had public forums about this, in which representatives from small schools and large schools would get together and air their grievances.

I distinctly recall that one of our local stars, who would win Miss Basketball and go on to win a national championship in college, got frustrated at the small school girls and shouted, "Can't you just try harder?"

She went to a high school of 2,500, drawing from an affluent trio of communities. They went to a high school of 200 or so, drawing from a single working-class community. It didn't register with her that this was, in the long game, an insurmountable advantage.

Try harder.

 

And, I bet a lot more people in Indiana got worked up about the potential change to high school basketball than would have gotten worked up and involved in a discussion to improve education.

 

FTFY