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S.C. deputy filmed slamming teen girl out of desk, dragging her away

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by dixiehack, Oct 27, 2015.

  1. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    I think, Rags, he's using "deserving a job" to mean "performing minimally well."
     
  2. cranberry

    cranberry Well-Known Member

    I understand what you're saying, but I think maybe you're overstating it. Do students, parents and local school boards not have an incentive to ensure their schools are performing well?

    Politicians, administrators and teachers are also have incentive to ensure schools perform well. Do 100 percent of their interests align? No, there is self interest that may in certain instances conflict. But the same holds true of investors in private enterprise.

    Is an "activist investor" Bill Ackman always looking out for the long-term interest of a company/brand in which he invests or is he sometimes trying to make a big profit and get the fuck out?
     
  3. dixiehack

    dixiehack Well-Known Member

    I tend to distrust the people who who want to radically overhaul public education, because most of them have a keen, overriding interest in sharply reducing their tax levy, whether it is going to the best school system in the country or the worst.
     
  4. old_tony

    old_tony Well-Known Member

    Plus, in today's world you can simply say a measurement says something that it doesn't -- like INCREASING Antarctica ice pack is further proof of global warming.
     
  5. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Sure, students, parents and local school boards WANT their schools to perform well. But again, the direct recipients of the service are not the ones paying for it in a direct way. People don't monitor the quality of something the way they would if they were the direct payer for the service. When I buy a car, I have very good control over who I write the check to. ... and what I get in return. I control the transaction and get exactly what I want from it. When I get taxed (or as is more typically the case in our country, when we run up debt to fund things we can't pay for), individuals have no direct control over what they are buying -- which is why few people invest much time or energy even trying. It's that direct control that consumers have, when things are demand-driven by individuals who directly benefit from what they are buying, that creates accountability. None of this should be that surprising to anyone. We all live it.

    Politicians, administrators and teachers have incentives to benefit their own (various) interests. That doesn't necessarily align with schools "performing well." Obviously, the actual performance of most school systems bears that out. Common sense bears it out, too. The incentive that drives Apple or Procter & Gamble is pretty simple: provide products that individuals demand and are willing to pay for, and the company profits. When the company profits, it can grow.A growing company typically creates job security for people. Those types of incentives don't exist for something provided by a government agency, paid for by forced taxation, and which fund an entity given monopolistic power. Again, that is why government agencies and publicly-funded entities -- for whatever societal decisions we make -- are nearly always messy bureaucracies that do a crummy job of allocating whatever it is they intend to do.

    When Bill Ackman invests in something, he puts his own (or his investors) money at risk -- presumably to profit (although you'd have to ask Bill Ackman what he is doing with any given investment). I'm not sure what that has to do with a public school.
     
    YankeeFan likes this.
  6. cranberry

    cranberry Well-Known Member

    While they don't have direct financial benefit or investment, politicians, board members, administrators and teachers' career trajectories strongly align with the success of their schools. Parents want a good education for their kids.

    What I'm saying is that corporate investors' incentives are not always 100 percent aligned with product quality, either. If Bill Ackman sees a way to make $4 billion as an "activist investor" over the short term by demanding the company take specific actions, but also knew that over the long-term those specific actions might sink a company long after he was in and out, he would still go ahead with that transaction and pursue that course of action in a heartbeat.
     
  7. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Bill Ackman doesn't just snap his finger and create $4 billion (or whatever dollar amount you want to make up). In fact, he's having a downright miserable year. But I am sure he loves your sentiment!

    Again, he has nothing to do with what we were discussing. Here is the thing. ... If Bill Ackman (or anyone) ever bought a controlling interest in a company (using their own money, right?) and somehow changed it in a way that cut off supply for something that had good consumer demand. ... there would be every incentive in the world for someone else to step in and provide whatever it is you are talking about. Competitors would benefit from whatever it is he did and profit.

    Again, that is because a consumer directly paying for a product or service is very invested in getting exactly what THEY want. And producers and service providers in demand-driven enterprises have incentive to meet that consumer demand. Markets are good at allocating things, because they are an amalgam of all of those individuals and what THEY demand. And if something is in demand, there will be people trying to profit from supplying it. We don't have to have you or me or anyone else decide what everyone needs or what comprises "product quality" when people make those determinations for themselves.

    When we make the decision that something suffers from a free rider problem (i.e. -- it is a public good) and therefore won't be allocated well by a market, yet we decide we still want it. ... or when we make the decision that we are going to provide something to everyone and pay for it collectively (i.e. -- public schools). ... you don't have those same incentives in place. That is why they typically become monopolistic, bureaucratic messes that leave a lot of people dissatisfied.
     
  8. cranberry

    cranberry Well-Known Member

    No question, which is why we leave as much as possible to private industry, but free rider problems certainly exist, as well, which is why (IMHO) we should try to give as much control as possible to the key stakeholders, even if those stakes are less direct and not necessarily financial.

    (Ackman has had a rough year, but I doubt he's going to need to sell the $100 million penthouse at One57.)
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2015
  9. Baron Scicluna

    Baron Scicluna Well-Known Member

    Because there's more to teaching than measurable criteria. You really want to compare a teacher who is in a wealthy classroom which can spends tens of thousands of dollars on the football team to a teacher whose kids are going to school hungry, and say the competition is an even one?

    And there are more factors that go into why a school is bad than just "the teachers suck". I notice you never did respond to my post that had the study which said the poorer schools in Illinois are not funded as well as the wealthier schools. And yet, you keep saying it's about the teachers. Make the competition even and maybe you could make a point. But right now, and for years, it hasn't even been close.
     
  10. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    So much for accurately summarizing my argument.
     
  11. Baron Scicluna

    Baron Scicluna Well-Known Member

    "Like Edison in Miami, Fenger replaced the principal and overhauled the staff."

    I noticed you left that interesting sentence out.

    And as your article went further on, it mentioned other factors, such as poverty and neighborhood violence, that were playing a role.

    But of course, you left that out, too. For you, it's always about the teachers, even when the schools does, as your article says, overhaul the staff.
     
  12. 93Devil

    93Devil Well-Known Member

    God, I love 10,000-word responses to simple questions with no answer.

    YF has stated over and over that some teachers need removed. All I'm asking is how many in a percentage form. An estimated guess from me was about 6%.

    If I walked into the Pentagon, what percentage of people there should not have their job?

    If I walked into Geico, what percentage of people there should not have their job?
     
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