San Bernardino

Fully.

 

So, we're quick to point out that Muslims condemn terror, and have declared ISIS to be un-Islamic.

But, can we imagine Muslim leaders saying something like this:



In fact, couldn't Muslims make three really simple reforms that would change nothing about how they worship, would change nothing about their own religion, but would vastly improve their relations around the world?

What if Muslim leaders simply said:

- We will not look to actively convert members of other religions.

- There is no penalty for being an "apostate". People are free to choose their own religion.

- People who live in Muslim majority nations are free to worship as they choose. They can build churches. They can posses Bibles, etc.

Hell, I'd settle for just the last two, since there are Christian missionaries who would like to convert Muslims.

Wouldn't we all respect Islam more if they took these two simple steps?

But, sadly, there is no chance these two simple reforms will be adopted.

 

You are a glutton for punishment, YF, but God bless ya. Trying to honestly debate with some of these yahoos is about as Sisyphean as it gets.

 

What Christian leader is trying to tell anyone how he should take a piss?

Well before our founders sought to separate Church and State, Jesus taught the same principle.

Jesus, unlike Mohammed, never sought to be a political/military/governing leader. He specifically rejected such suggestions.

They handed him one and he said to them, 'Whose portrait is this? Whose title?' They said to him, 'Caesar's.'

Jesus said to them, 'Pay Caesar what belongs to Caesar -- and God what belongs to God.' And they were amazed at him.

And, while there may be no "governing body", the Saudi King/government is the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques, and they fund an extreme version of Islam around the world, including within the United States.

The problem with Islam is not that some members are more extreme than their leaders. Their leaders, though there are many, are pretty extreme. (And, let's be clear, just denouncing ISIS doesn't make you a moderate.)

Let's also not ignore that there is a Caliph. Is he self proclaimed? Yes. But he has support around the world. Muslims are traveling across the globe to fight on his behalf, and live under his rule. Muslims around the world -- including the San Bernardino killers -- are pledging their support to him. Islamic groups are pledging their fealty to the Caliphate, and the Caliphate is setting up colonies in places like Sirte in Libya.

 

I have no idea what that word means.

 

"How is that different from Christianity?" is the default response of someone who has no interest in the difference.

 

Sisyphus, the dude who forever pushes the rock up the hill.

 

I asked Inky about caliphate a few pages back. He must still be researching his response.

 

Greek mythology! I quit school for a reason mister, and one of them was so I didn't need to read Greek mythology.

(I am familiar with the story, but if you had put a gun to my head, I couldn't have named the guy.)

 

You've got an odd little fixation with this piss thing.

 

Because of the Shia/Sunni split, no Caliph will ever be recognized by all Muslims.

(We should talk about this for a moment too though. We hear all the time that "Muslims are the vast majority of ISIS's victims," or something along those lines. Well, yeah, as we look at it, they kill a lot of Muslims. But, the main reason Muslims kill other Muslims is because they don't view them as Muslims. They consider them apostates, who don't properly follow Islam.)

But, Sunni Muslims worldwide are very excited about the Caliphate. They recognize it. They see it as real, and legitimate, and look forward to its growth.