SB Nation pulls Daniel Holtzclaw longform piece

[YankeeFan]

Jones is right, btw.

 

[YankeeFan]

In 2014, Vox Media, which owns SBNation, was valued at $400 million, and last year, it was valued at a billion. If you or anyone else wants to work for them for free, or for a nickel a word, without enough editors or a travel budget, knock yourself out. I'd rather work at Home Depot.*

*Not a slam on Home Depot or its employees. I really do fantasize about working there.

Do they make money? If yes, from where?

I look at Eater a lot for business reasons, but I can't imagine it makes money. Very little advertising. Few reader comments ever.

Even look at Curbed from time to time, and on rare occasion Racked.

None of them look like money makers to me.

Is the valuation based on Vox.com? Maybe it makes some money, but it's mostly terrible.

 

[3_Octave_Fart]

Typefitter-
You should write about Home Depot. It would be more interesting than somebody who's Fighting Adversity in life.
Bad work is not always about the length of a coin.

 

[The Big Ragu]

Do they make money? If yes, from where?

I look at Eater a lot for business reasons, but I can't imagine it makes money. Very little advertising. Few reader comments ever.

Even look at Curbed from time to time, and on rare occasion Racked.

None of them look like money makers to me.

Is the valuation based on Vox.com? Maybe it makes some money, but it's mostly terrible.

I don't want to derail the conversation. But:

1) That billion dollar valuation is ridiculous. They are a unicorn -- In 2015, they had private equity and investors throwing silly QE money at them as the bubble was running up. I doubt anyone could unload their stake for anything near that valuation right now.

2) They don't have to disclose financials, because they are privately owned. But supposedly they had modest revenue (somewhere in the $60 million range) in 2014 and they earned a small profit. Nothing that would justify a $1 billion valuation or even a $400 million valuation in a value-oriented world, but yeah, they are probably profitable.

 

[playthrough]

I get that, but I can also forgive it. I wouldn't like to think of my stuff going into the fire, but obviously it has more years than not, and if I had to think about it, I'd guess my failed submissions weren't being given a solemn burial at sea.

It's the taking of the picture and sharing it. I don't doubt that Stout sees a lot of pieces that are just gawdawful, and if it gives him private pleasure to put them in a shredder like junk mail, so be it. But they were still someone's work and to make public entertainment out of it is beyond tacky. I had newspaper stories killed in my day but (to the best of my knowledge) the editor didn't moonwalk across the newsroom after doing it.

 

[typefitter]

YF and Ragu, I just figure if something is valued at $1 billion, however speciously, somebody, somewhere, is making some money from it.

And I should say, as an addendum to my previous post, that you might find good reason to write for free or for little pay—the thrill of seeing a story earn an audience, an opening to some larger opportunity, you and your friends are doing something out of love together, whatever. That's a personal choice that you have to make, and I meant what I said: If you want to do that, go to town. It's your time and effort. I just think that most of the time, it's a mistake. I think it devalues all writing, and I believe words—well-reported, structured, and written words—should have value. Good stories are hard and rare. If you are good at something, you should get paid for it. We complain all the time about the illogic of newspapers giving their product away for nothing; I don't see how it's any different for writers.

 

[3_Octave_Fart]

Poe's adjusted earnings were below our poverty line. That was before he drank the rest away.
So it's never been all about talent.
I would surmise Caleb Hannan was paid well by industry standards- and look at the egg he dropped.
You can give somebody lavish spending "resources" and he will still produce crap.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Does this make you bitter and washed up?

I'm nowhere near bitter or washed up. I've just seen enough to know the difference between shirt and shirt steak. You obviously haven't.

 

[typefitter]

Poe's adjusted earnings were below our poverty line. That was before he drank the rest away.
So it's never been all about talent.
I would surmise Caleb Hannan was paid well by industry standards- and look at the egg he dropped.
You can give somebody lavish spending "resources" and he will still produce crap.

Of course. Poverty has produced some great work, and money has produced some serious shirt. Love will trump most things when it comes to art. But if you pay professional wages, and if you have an appropriately sized staff earning them, you will have a generally higher quality of work than if people are stretched too thin or you're trying to get them to work for free. This isn't exactly a mind-bending proposition I'm making here.

 

[3_Octave_Fart]

We're talking past each other at this point, which is fine.
Arnold's name is on the thing. As Hannan's was on his.
The damage done to that, no amount of money can fix.
All because they didn't have an editor to save them from themselves.

 

[Songbird]

Typefitter-
You should write about Home Depot. It would be more interesting than somebody who's Fighting Adversity in life.
Bad work is not always about the length of a coin.

Agree. The local Home Depot came in and quickly put 3 longstanding local hardware mom 'n' pops to bed.

I don't know what this means -- Bad work is not always about the length of a coin -- but I like how it sounds.

 

[JC]

I'm nowhere near bitter or washed up. I've just seen enough to know the difference between shirt and shirt steak. You obviously haven't.

What was better about the old days?

I ask as a reader.