Chevy Volt a Failure - GM to Layoff 1,300

da man · Dec 11, 2015

Consumer Reports doesn't love the Tesla Model S anymore.

Well, it still does in terms of performance, but it has removed the Model S from its recommended list due to a worse-than-average reliability rating.

Consumer Reports finds poor reliability for Tesla Model S

Now Green Car Reports says there could be some significant drivetrain issues -- Two-Thirds of Earliest Tesla Drivetrains To Fail In 60,000 Miles, Owner Data Suggests -- and says Tesla won't answer its questions about the long-term reliability of its motors.

Tesla hasn't answered questions about early Model S reliability [UPDATE]

TheSportsPredictor · Feb 22, 2016

Koch Brothers coming after electric cars:

The Kochs Are Plotting A Multimillion-Dollar Assault On Electric Vehicles

Twirling Time · Feb 22, 2016

Why should they? It takes their smoke-belching, CO2-emitting coal plants to run the grid that charges them in the first place.

The Big Ragu · Feb 22, 2016

Their money. They can waste it however they want.

But petroleum-based fuels aren't in any trouble from electric cars (maybe in trouble from other things), even with all of the wasteful subsidization that has come at all of our expense -- because it gets tacked onto our national and states' debts. Electric cars are a miniscule percentage of total car sales still, and the rate of growth of their sales has slowed down to a crawl, as the novelty has worn off since 2011 /2012, and all the "new toy" people started getting theirs.

This isn't that difficult. There would be a market for the cars if their utility was equal or greater than the utility of driving a car that runs on gas. That obviously isn't the case -- even when subsidies make them cheaper for consumers. Fuel prices would have to be way higher than they are (way higher than they have ever been) for the typical electric car -- which is more expensive than a comparable gas vehicle, even with their subsidization -- to make financial sense for the typical person. Add in the limitations that come with most electric vehicles being sold right now (namely, the range, before it has to sit plugged in), and it clearly has not been a good sell -- an even worse sell in countries that haven't made it a national agenda to run up debt subsidizing the cars. Maybe that changes someday, but with where the technology is right now, that isn't close to being the case. It may not ever be the case, given that battery technology hasn't advanced the way a lot of other things have in the 130 years since people pretty much began trying to develop commercially-viable electric vehicles.

They only way those cars can find any adoption is through subsidies, and if there is going to be wider adoption, the subsidies are going to have to be even greater and create even more of an unfair playing field. Or they are going to have to mandate that people use electric cars, and outlaw gas vehicles. If that group is going to run a PR campaign pointing all of that out, fine. Their money. But my sense is most people glaze over things like that, because if they didn't, we would never have had a government running trillions of dollars of debt and wasting resources that way in the first place. People would give a shit without the Koch Brothers creating PR campaigns.

swingline · Feb 22, 2016

The Big Ragu said: ↑

Their money. They can waste it however they want.

They only way those cars can find any adoption is through subsidies, and if there is going to be wider adoption, the subsidies are going to have to be even greater and create even more of an unfair playing field. Or they are going to have to mandate that people use electric cars, and outlaw gas vehicles.
Click to expand...

Red Barchetta, man. Red Barchetta.

YankeeFan · Mar 29, 2016

FileNotFound · Mar 29, 2016

Trigger finger already itchy to click SUBMIT on that $1,000 deposit. Want one of those in the worst way, and Q4 of '17/Q1 of '18 is when I'll be about due for a new car anyway.

TigerVols · Mar 29, 2016

I just drove a Tesla the other day. It was a fine ride, with enormous number of bells and whistles...zero to 60 in a blink of an eye. But...completely soulless.*

*That opinion might have something to do with the fact I drove the Tesla seconds after getting out of a 1999 Ferrari 355 F1 which I took to 165mph. The roar of the 8 cylinders firing inches behind your head is something to behold.

RevPastor · Mar 29, 2016

Where is your moaning and crying about that?

The Big Ragu said: ↑

Their money. They can waste it however they want.

But petroleum-based fuels aren't in any trouble from electric cars (maybe in trouble from other things), even with all of the wasteful subsidization that has come at all of our expense -- because it gets tacked onto our national and states' debts. Electric cars are a miniscule percentage of total car sales still, and the rate of growth of their sales has slowed down to a crawl, as the novelty has worn off since 2011 /2012, and all the "new toy" people started getting theirs.

This isn't that difficult. There would be a market for the cars if their utility was equal or greater than the utility of driving a car that runs on gas. That obviously isn't the case -- even when subsidies make them cheaper for consumers. Fuel prices would have to be way higher than they are (way higher than they have ever been) for the typical electric car -- which is more expensive than a comparable gas vehicle, even with their subsidization -- to make financial sense for the typical person. Add in the limitations that come with most electric vehicles being sold right now (namely, the range, before it has to sit plugged in), and it clearly has not been a good sell -- an even worse sell in countries that haven't made it a national agenda to run up debt subsidizing the cars. Maybe that changes someday, but with where the technology is right now, that isn't close to being the case. It may not ever be the case, given that battery technology hasn't advanced the way a lot of other things have in the 130 years since people pretty much began trying to develop commercially-viable electric vehicles.

They only way those cars can find any adoption is through subsidies, and if there is going to be wider adoption, the subsidies are going to have to be even greater and create even more of an unfair playing field. Or they are going to have to mandate that people use electric cars, and outlaw gas vehicles. If that group is going to run a PR campaign pointing all of that out, fine. Their money. But my sense is most people glaze over things like that, because if they didn't, we would never have had a government running trillions of dollars of debt and wasting resources that way in the first place. People would give a shit without the Koch Brothers creating PR campaigns.
Click to expand...

I'll addendum this overly simplistic view by pointing out that there are not many used hybrids/electrics on the road at present. Additionally, the urban areas where these vehicles would thrive are devoid of parking spaces where charging is available.

You can talk about how the subsidies are a waste, but there is far, FAR, more subsidies going towards oil. They get about $4.8b per year. According to the Washington Post, electric will get total subsidies of $7.5b through 2019. Hmmm... Simple math says oil is getting over three times as much money per year than electric. Where is your moaning and crying about that?

Now, if the government was serious about pushing electrics, there would be charging stations on the street. There would be charging stations in every garage. There isn't. The only way this happens is if it is inside a personal home.

The Big Ragu · Mar 29, 2016

RevPastor said: ↑

You can talk about how the subsidies are a waste, but there is far, FAR, more subsidies going towards oil. They get about $4.8b per year. According to the Washington Post, electric will get total subsidies of $7.5b through 2019. Hmmm... Simple math says oil is getting over three times as much money per year than electric. Where is your moaning and crying about that?
Click to expand...

Demonstrate ONE subsidy-- just one--that an oil producer (or driller -- or whatever about oil that you think is subsidized) gets. Just one. You will have to redefine the word subsidy to even attempt to do this.

Iron_chet · Mar 29, 2016

I have abouts 60 mile commute to work round trip and park in a heated garage at my workplace. I would give some serious consideration to this.

I would have to do the math on the electricity costs as the govt is phasing out coal fired power plants and rates are expected to rise.

RevPastor · Mar 29, 2016

The Big Ragu said: ↑

[QUOTE="RevPastor, post: 4029604, member: 149119]You can talk about how the subsidies are a waste, but there is far, FAR, more subsidies going towards oil. They get about $4.8b per year.
Click to expand...

Demonstrate ONE subsidy-- just one--that an oil producer (or driller -- or whatever about oil that you think is subsidized) gets. Just one. You will have to redefine the word subsidy to even attempt to do this.[/QUOTE]
Are you serious right now...? Honestly, I don't understand how you can act so willfully ignorant. Since you asked with all the arrogance of a person that doesn't have Google...

Is Forbes a good source?
You might not like Mother Jones, but they have a piece on it.
Wikipedia wants in on the action with this money quote:

On March 13, 2013, Terry M. Dinan, senior advisor at the Congressional Budget Office, testified before the Subcommittee on Energy of the Committee on Science, Space, and Technology in the U.S. House of Representatives that federal energy tax subsidies would cost $16.4 billion that fiscal year, broken down as follows:

Renewable energy: $7.3 billion (45 percent)

Energy efficiency: $4.8 billion (29 percent)

Fossil fuels: $3.2 billion (20 percent)

Nuclear energy: $1.1 billion (7 percent)

Click to expand...

The Huffington Post has an article on this.
The Atlantic has an article on this.
Lastly, I'll post a NY Times story on this.

I've given you six links including a quote from someone testifying before Congress about how much money the USA is spending to subsidize oil. Your childish fit has been answered with actual facts.

Log in or Sign up

Chevy Volt a Failure - GM to Layoff 1,300

da man Well-Known Member

TheSportsPredictor Well-Known Member

Twirling Time Well-Known Member

The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

swingline Well-Known Member

YankeeFan Well-Known Member

FileNotFound Well-Known Member

TigerVols Well-Known Member

RevPastor Member

The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

Iron_chet Well-Known Member

RevPastor Member

Share This Page

Log in or Sign up

Chevy Volt a Failure - GM to Layoff 1,300

da man Well-Known Member

TheSportsPredictor Well-Known Member

Twirling Time Well-Known Member

The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

swingline Well-Known Member

YankeeFan Well-Known Member

FileNotFound Well-Known Member

TigerVols Well-Known Member

RevPastor Member

The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

Iron_chet Well-Known Member

RevPastor Member

Share This Page

Useful Searches