Chevy Volt a Failure - GM to Layoff 1,300

EDIT: Deleted it. I got sucked in too far. Something I try to tell everyone else not to do. I am human. Sorry everyone else.

 

Nope. I didn't. You think it will help? Or if you want to do do the honoraries, I will PM back saying that I get it and understand your point!

 

Rev, I can't respond to most of that. You are not having the same conversation.

But the last two things you quoted?

They came from two different thoughts:

1) I don't look at fundamentals as a trader. Where you took that sentence fragment from without the part that tried to explain the same thing I am about to type. Fundamentals have no bearing on what I PERSONALLY do to make money -- I don't trade on information (which I couldn't do successfully). I trade on time / price -- it is very technical. As a trader, I am not buying and holding something -- as an investor does. Traders and investors are two different things. It is why Tesla's stock can trade pretty irrationally over a period of time. When momentum traders get their hands on a stock they can do a lot with it. Especially in an environment of too much credit creating a leverage boom (what we got into) supported by what is known as the "carry trade." (using cheap currencies to finance gambling on stocks). And especially when actual fundamental investors have piled in short on the stock and there is a short squeeze to be had to test their conviction. That kind of trading activity can keep a stock price elevated well beyond anything that seems rational.

The eventual end game is different story.

2) Over the long term? Hell, yeah, fundamentals ALWAYS eventually matter-- from an investment standpoint (not from a trading standpoint). Again, what I wrote in that other post. It is why I have said to anyone on this thread, if you are buying and holding Tesla as a long-term, forget-about-it-proposition (not as a trading vehicle), I personally don't get it. Not if you actually do any of the work any diligent investor does -- looking at valuations, debt levels, book value, the business plan and past execution, etc. Fundamentally, that stock is as trading as irrationally as anything was during the dot-com bubble, and I do think at some point people will look back in hindsight and get it -- unless something drastically changes, and Tesla can take the billions of dollars it wildly keeps borrowing (thanks to the liquidity bubble it has been the beneficiary of operating in) and raising and getting via subsidies, and somehow create a wholly different company than it is right now -- and then somehow manage to profit so much that it can service what is now a LOT of debt. I wouldn't bet on that personally. Oh, and if rates normalize, Tesla -- like lots of other heavily indebted entities -- is toast. It can't service that debt without rates being manipulated to keep credit flowing.

 

In my posts when I had a point about the copious subsidies Tesla has received at great expense to its competitors and our economy in general, I have been pretty specific. The ZEV credits that it resells, for example -- explaining them in detail. The half a billion dollar check it got from the Federal government as part of its bought-and-paid for political influence. Which was like your mortgage, remember? Except that your mortgage is collateralized and if you don't pay it back there are consequences, and a mortgage is equally available to ANYONE who is collateralized properly and has the necessary income. Which of course is unlike the bag of cash Tesla got which wasn't available to you or me or anyone except an industry some politicians decided to subsidize with cash (the actual definition of subsidization). Unfortunately, it was available to Fisker, too, and others. ... and that money is now gone. Because it wasn't a loan. There was no collateral). BTW, it wasn't available to the industry, either. It was available to handpicked people who bought the politicians. For example, ask Bright Automotive why Tesla got $500 million, but they were rejected for the $450 million they wanted.

Not once, have I done this asinine "proven wrong" thing you do in every post.

Stop telling me I was "proven wrong" or that that you drilled nails into my coffin. And get a clue about what you are talking about (for example, the page and a half you kept telling me I was proven wrong about the company bleeding cash (which isn't a conversation except with someone who doesn't know what they are talking about) and you googling furiously to STILL mistakenly try to tell me that the company is cash flow positive -- because you had no clue what you were discussing.

I don't have to run around saying, "proven wrong." If you are mistaken about something, I address the thing you said -- factually with what I know, and trust me, I know this company's balance sheet inside and out and I follow it fairly closely for something work related. You keep ignoring my posts and posting, "Proven wrong." I tried to be so patient with you, too.

 

One other thing. Your "link" about those powerwall batteries.

1) I said Tesla doesn't even make batteries. Proven wrong. Except they don't, for christ's sake. They buy batteries from others and put them into their products (cars, that powerwall unit, etc).
2) I said that Tesla doesn't make money selling batteries, and quick you hit the google and find a link to a promotional piece for the Powerwall. So, "proven wrong!"

This is why I hate trying to have conversations on here.

Tesla not only doesn't make any money on that product (which is not really a product -- it is still in a VERY limited trial mode), they LOSE MONEY on it.

The Powerwall isn't a product yet. It is something they have in trial mode -- in conjunction with SolarCity (another Elon Musk gem, where the bullshit has already caught up to the company and the stock) and there are something like 500 units being tested out there. They can't mass produce it, because they don't have the money to do it -- you know the mythical gigafactory that keeps getting pushed back till Godot shows up? They also haven't made a penny selling those units -- they lose money on every one produced!

But "proven wrong!"

I'll repeat anyhow. They don't make any money selling batteries. Strike that -- they LOSE MONEY on the handful of batteries they have actual sold (mostly through SolarCity).

And lastly, that Powerwall was typical Elon Musk bullshit -- in a microcosm. When he announced it it was all hype. Revolutionize the world. Get ready. Blah blah. It hasn't lived up to any of the hype, he has no ability to produce them, let alone at a cost that makes any sense. ... and they actually discontinued one of the products in the line last month (without the hype of course).