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Chevy Volt a Failure - GM to Layoff 1,300

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Evil Bastard (aka Chris_L), Mar 2, 2012.

  1. RevPastor

    RevPastor Member

    Nobody is forced to buy them. Nobody.

    The other problem with this is that you think Tesla is the only one capable of having them. That's wrong.

    The fact that they produce zero emissions is a fact. That California decided to quantify this with a means by which to reduce the carbon emissions isn't some nefarious means by which to generate wealth for Tesla.

    Like just about every law created, there are winners, losers and those that can figure out the system to benefit themselves. If you need evidence of this, check out the cable industry.


    None of what you wrote changes the fact that it was a federal loan. This was also a loan that was paid back.

    When Rick Santorum received a special mortgage loan that neither you nor I would be allowed, people certainly crowed but, guess what, he still got it. Sometimes people get gifts and hand outs. Banks received bailout dollars after bailout dollars. The auto industry was bailed out. How is it suddenly awful that Tesla got a loan? Given that he paid it back, why is it some sort of talking point for you as if the loan was worthless?


    You provide almost no context or evidence for the claims you make. You argued that the loan was a government handout.

    You can't run around saying "Proven Wrong" because you don't actually prove anything. You instead have made claims that were then countered with links demonstrating your information to be false.


    I am not arguing about Tesla's cash flow. You are still arguing that they are receive government subsidies as if no one else does. You are still claiming that they are getting free money from the government, without evidence.

    So, maybe, once, you can provide some actual evidence for an assertion. Otherwise, my links stand and, yes, you are still wrong.


    You began with childish insults and were treated in kind.

    I've asked you what your issue is with Tesla. You won't reply. Why?

    You claim there is all this evil government handouts, which don't exist. It isn't my fault that you can't research anything more on the company than its balance sheet. Maybe you should try and understand and learn what others see in the company. It would make you a better investor...


    I haven't bought into any hype. If they lose money, big deal.

    Why don't you explain why you are so angry about the existence of a company trying to do something different? Why get so pissed off?


    Yet more gems of genius! How do you come up with them?!

    By the way, how do you plan on backing up your claim that the company is propped up for political reasons? I'm so anxiously awaiting what will certainly be another wonderfully worded and witty reply. You just so good at them. I truly bow down every time I read them thinking about that community college adjunct intellect at work...

     
  2. BTExpress

    BTExpress Well-Known Member

    Both DQ and Ragu are highly intelligent. But DQ does provide a much better value per word.
     
    JC likes this.
  3. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Proven wrong!

    Better? :)
     
    BTExpress and doctorquant like this.
  4. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    I've got some more in my "Drafts" folder at my gmail.com account ...
     
  5. justgladtobehere

    justgladtobehere Well-Known Member

  6. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    I started to post something long (of course) the night the news broke, but the responses on this thread have worn me out and I figured, "Why bother?"

    But I'll try, since you revived the thread.

    Musk is proposing that one entity that is bleeding cash, but has run out of room to exist on a billions of dollars worth of subsidies and borrowed money, get bailed out by his other entity that bleeds cash and has run on subsidies and billions of dollars of ZIRP money, but still has people idiotically financing his bullshit, unlike the entity that is near bankruptcy. His only gambit left is the same one he went to a few months ago to raise yet more money for Tesla (as he bleeds cash) -- using the ridiculous stock price of Tesla (while it is still in bubble territory) as a currency to buy time for Solarcity (which has been going down hard), because he is out of money and his bullshit and hype ain't working on that one anymore.

    I was afraid the BS would actually float as usual, when I first heard the conference call, but the reaction has been pretty strong -- finally! If you look at the stock prices at the end of the day yesterday, the initial reaction was that Solarcity is worth less than zero to the market, because the hit in market cap that Tesla took minus the muted boost in market cap that Solarcity saw created a "combined" company worth less than the two had been worth trading independently. Hopefully that kind of rational response continues -- although as long as central banks still have a modicum of ability to distort markets (they are losing control, though), who knows?

    I'll give Musk this. He has balls the size of bowling balls. Only someone who has gotten away with endless con artistry would even try to bail himself out with that kind of move. He must think he is bulletproof. It may be legal somehow, but jesus is it slimy.

    Here was CNBC, which got a statement from Jim Chanos about it:

    Jim Chanos shreds 'shameful' Tesla-SolarCity deal

    Solarcity is close to bankruptcy -- at the rate it is bleeding cash, its dogshit business (which is simply a financing scheme that got as far as it did because of artificially low manipulated interest rates that we will pay for for years and years and years) is belly up by the end of the year.

    Tesla bleeds cash at a ridiculous rate, but because of the hype surrounding the company, it has been able to keep borrowing to finance its mess -- using its stock as a currency to keep raising money. And he has ridden it to the hilt. You need balls to dilute your stock float the way he did a few months ago to raise more than a billion dollars yet again for your business that is bleeding cash -- and get away with it because of distorted markets the Fed has created, by rewarding failure (which we will pay for for years and years and years) -- and then actually try to dilute your stock by billions of dollars more to bail your other entity out. I am hoping this is where the Musk bullshit finally ends -- with the curtain being lifted on the Wizard of Oz. People like him are destructive -- or as Zero Hedge said within minutes of the announcement the other day, "We wonder if 22nd Century investors will be warned of "Musk Schemes"?

    I read this yesterday. No I didn't write it. It was pretty spot on, though.

    Wake Up Musk Fanboyz: Desperate Times Call for Desperate Measures
     
    YankeeFan likes this.
  7. justgladtobehere

    justgladtobehere Well-Known Member

  8. Earthman

    Earthman Well-Known Member

  9. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    I find that headline deceptive. Tesla doesn't sell those cars as self driving. They tell people that autopilot, as it exists, is an assistance technology -- and it tells people to keep their hands on the wheel and stay alert. It is more to straighten the car and keep you in lane, than to drive the car for you. They are working on an autodrive technology, as are a lot of others, but it isn't there yet.

    I don't know what to believe about this guy who died. You never know whether to trust reports anymore. ... there have been some reports that he was watching a Harry Potter video when he crashed and died. I find that hard to believe, but if it's true, it isn't the cars' fault.

    Eventually -- maybe sooner rather than later -- there are going to be people rolling out true self-driving cars. I wouldn't be surprised if there are some accidents and deaths. Just like in the early days of automobiles and airplanes there were accidents and deaths. It's kind of to be expected.
     
  10. Inky_Wretch

    Inky_Wretch Well-Known Member

    My father loves to tell the story of a guy buying a conversion van when cruise control first came out. Guy is driving through Kansas, sets the cruise and goes back to get a coke from the fridge. Naturally, the van drifted off the road. Guy was pissed. Tried to sue the dealership.
     
  11. murphyc

    murphyc Well-Known Member

    I recall as well seeing the report of the guy watching a DVD when he crashed. Maybe he was shooting another video so we'll be able to tell for sure.
    As much as the purist in me despises the idea of autonomous vehicles, every time I see a vehicle driven by a person glued to his/her phone I warm up to the idea more.
     
  12. da man

    da man Well-Known Member

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