Trump cheats at golf - the ONE and ONLY politics thread

Could somebody please point out the flaws in logic or research in my arguments in this facebook discussion:

eed: Colin Powell and Dem hacks in media have suddenly started saying Trump’s demanding Obama’s birth certificate was racist. How do they figure? Actually, they just figure the majority of blacks will fall for it and make sure they vote for Hillary.
.
The issue of whether a presidential candidate was a natural-born citizen came up in 2008 and 2016 with McCain who was born in Panama and Cruz who was born in Canada. No one accused those who raised it, including Trump in the case of Cruz, of being racist. No one accused Trump of being racist when he raised it regarding Obama a couple of years ago. So why is it suddenly, belatedly racist in 2016?
.
Because Colin Powell is a little bit black and any accusation a partially black person that something is racist means it is racist, all logic to the contrary being ignored because a partially black person can’t possibly be wrong about whether something is racist.
.
Back when Powell endorsed Obama in 2008 I wrote an article about that endorsement. It’s title was “Colin Powell is a racist.” Why else would a lifelong Republican suddenly endorse a way left Democrat? Colin Powell is a racist

Me: In 2008, three years before Donald Trump started talking about this, Barack Obama released his birth certificate. The COLB or "short form" is the legal birth certificate in Hawaii. If you were born in Hawaii and you asked the DOH for a copy of your birth certificate, that's what they'd give you. You could get a passport with it, enlist in the military, get a driver's license, etc. It's admissible in any court in the country and the information on it is presumed to be truthful unless there is evidence sufficient to overcome that presumption. Given that there is no credible evidence Barack Obama was born anywhere other than Hawaii and there is no plausible scenario where he could have been born in another country and had the birth fraudulently registered in Hawaii, why didn't that settle it?

Reed: Your statement is false for lack of research on your part. Also, I wrote a post noting that the long form had more info and suggesting that Obama was hiding something other than his place of birth, like maybe his religion. Also, there was testimony that parents often sent false birth reports to the newspapers to try to get a passport later and that doctors sometimes “helped” immigrants by signing false birth certificates. The newspapers did not verify birth certificates or get their info from hospitals.
.
There is also the reverse argument of yours. Why not release the long from if it says the same as the short? Clearly, Obama did that to keep the birther thing alive as long as possible because he thought it was helping him politically.
.
But your whole comment is beside the point because my post is about the fact that the birther controversy had nothing to do with race.

Me: The only relevant questions regarding his eligibility were his age and where he was born. The COLB answered both questions. The other issues are not relevant to his eligibility. The state DOH sent the birth reports to the papers, not individual parents. And yes, it kind of gets to the point of race, because what legitimate reason was there to dispute where he was born once the COLB was made public?

Reed: No logic to your statement. I already said he may have been hiding some fact on the long from that was not on the short other than place of birth. As to what other reason could there be: Trump likes attention. Trump believed Obama was hiding a religious line on the form. Trump wanted to show that he could force Obama to release the long from when no one else could—which is precisely what he did.
.
I have no idea on earth why you or the Democrat hack reporters think it has anything whatsoever to do with race. Scott Adams says the same above. If it’s so racial, why did that accusation not surface years ago when Trump was beating this drum?

Me: Read what I said again very carefully. The religious argument is irrelevant. The question was about his eligibility. The only thing that matters for that are his age and where he was born. The COLB answered both questions. As it turned out, the religion question was not on the long form either

A third party: "The only relevant questions regarding his eligibility were his age and where he was born."

Not entirley correct. If Obama Jr. had been born abroad (an extremely remote possibility), and if his father really were Obama Sr. (see below), then, under the laws in effect at the time of Obama Jr.'s birth, his underage mother would have been unable to convey her American citizenship to her offspring.

However, there is another issue, one that John Reed mentioned: the possibility that Obama does not want to reveal something that his birth certificate shows. If I'm not mistaken, (Smallpotatoes) believes that the long form that Obama released is authentic, so all is fine. However, Sheriff Joe Arpaio and his investigative unit determined that the PDF of Obama's birth certificate was modified, so it is a fake. If it is a fake, then why was it forged or altered? The most plausible explanation is to hide something inconvenient, such as place of birth, date of birth, or parentage.

Obama Jr. bears a strong resemblance to his maternal grandfather, but little resemblance to Obama Sr. Some people suggest he resembles his Communist mentor, Frank Marshall Davis.

I don't know. All I can say is the following:
1. The desire to know the truth has nothing to do with Obama's race.
2. Obama has never released all kinds of information about himself that other modern politicians release as a matter of course.
3. Obama has a track record of lying (and not just little white lies, but huge, Clintonesque lies).

Because of all this, even if Obama's long form birth certificate is authentic, I can't accept it as such. Doubt remains because Obama put it there.

Me: f the long form is a fake, then the Hawaii DOH is complicit in the forgery since they have verified the information that is on it. And if that's the case, why would they have not produced a forgery that would have been perfect and indistinguishable from an authentic document? Also, given the expense of a trip from Hawaii to Kenya, it's highly unlikely Stanley Ann Dunham could have gone there, especially when at an advanced stage of pregnancy.

Third party: I agree with you that it is entirely unlikely that Stanley Ann traveled abroad while in the last months of pregnancy. However, I also think it entirely unlikely that she went off to classes at the University of Washington 15 days after the birth of her son—yet that's what the records show (Obama's official date of birth is 8/4/61, and UW records show Stanley Ann in class on 8/19/61).

There are any number of political reasons why officials in Hawaii might not be telling the truth. However, I do not know that they are, and am not making any accusations. I acknowledge that the form Obama released might be authentic. However...

When someone lies and obfuscates as much as Obama, he is not to be trusted, even when he tells you that the sun rises in the east.

Me: It's not a matter of believing him or not believing him. All the evidence points to him being born in Hawaii. No evidence points to him being born anywhere else. If think the Hawaii DOH is lying, it's up to you to prove it.

Third party: Perhaps you didn't notice that I agree that Obama was born in Hawaii. I don't have the resources or inclination to show that anyone in the Hawaii DOH is lying, but Arpaio's investigation suggests someone might be. Furthermore, Obama's own history of lying means he is not to be trusted.

Me: With the long form, there are three possibilities. First, authentic and the information on it matches what the DOH has on file. Second, it's a forgery and the information on it matches what the DOH has on file. Third, it's a forgery and the information on it does not match what the Hawaii DOH has on file and they're lying. Only one of those makes sense. There's no need to forge anything if the information on it is the same as what the DOH has on file. If it doesn't, the DOH would either confirm that it's a forgery or if they were complicit, produce a flawless forgery that nobody would ever suspect of being a forgery. The only thing that makes sense is that the document is authentic and matches what the Hawaii DOH has on file.

Reed: This is all off point. Why is Trump racist now because of past birther support when he was not called racist then? Why was he not called racist when he pointed to Cruz Canadian birth? Why was no one called racist when they pointed out McCain Panama birth? Why was no one called racist when they pointed out George Romney’s Mexican birth?
.
Colin Powell invented the racist connection this week. Now the media and Democrats are running with it as fast as they can. (DrIrvingFinegarten) fell for it and is carrying their water.
.
The issue here is why is it racist? Any more comments on on the birther issue instead of why it’s racist will be deleted.

Me: When someone asks a political candidate to provide documents that they have not asked any previous candidate to provide then refuse to accept the information on those documents, it begs the question if why. Once the answers about McCain and George Romney were provided, I don't recall anyone disputing them.

 

Well, the first problem is there is zero discussion of cars.

 

Anything else?

 

I'm too exhausted to dissect that at the moment. Probably valid points on both sides. I wasn't aware of the Univ. of Washington connection in August 1961.

The biggest takeaway from that for me - and I've thought this a fair amount over the past nine years, and particularly lately with Ferguson in 2014 and Baltimore in 2015 - is that it's a damn shame this country (and the world) hasn't come along a lot further on racial issues and other divisive issues.

Not the answer you are looking for.

If there is one thing that we learned from the 1960s that I hoped would bring the world closer together, it was this: (courtesy of NASA)

 

Feelin' a little ... edgy there?

 

Of course McCain's birth in the Panama Canal Zone wasn't an issue. Of course Barry Goldwater's birth in the Territory of Arizona wasn't an issue.

 

Ted Cruz's was, for Trump.

 

Oh, the desperate attempts to remind America that Trump is a loose cannon ...

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/17/u...n-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

 

One million internet dollars for anyone who read that whole thing.

 

I did, as penance for defending a white nationalist. So fork it over ...

 

A campaign reset for Clinton. LOL.

 

Nobody cares about your fantasy team Facebook drama.