President Trump: The NEW one and only politics thread

YankeeFan · Jan 6, 2017

Lena, Rev. Al, and Letterman. Sounds like a party!

outofplace · Jan 6, 2017

Alma said: ↑

Well - and I sometimes get knocked here for doing it - I'm not really speaking for me, but a lot of people I grew up with, know now, and spend life together with on holidays and college football Saturdays.

For a Christian, I'm unusually comfortable with the separation of church and state. I argue with conservative Christian friends all the time about this. What I'm saying is - a lot of them are not.

And, like dq wrote, the Christmas programs I'm speaking of are probably more secular than religious. More to the point: Most of these people aren't any more Christian than an atheist. They worship at the church of "good," not God. And good, for decades on end, was community events around Christmas, a random prayer at Thanksgiving and Easter, a sense of belonging in wherever they were at which was comprised of - yes, absolutely - white middle class Americans who saw the world in more or less the same ways. These were neighbors who'd shovel your sidewalk because, I dunno, it made them feel good, they felt compelled to do it, and whatever. Whatever that was.

Those people - a whole giant glut of them - have been kidnapped by right-wing media. I hate right-wing media. I'm not sure that could be more clear than I've made it in posts over the years. But there's a difference between how I feel about it and what I know the effect of right-wing media is.

Right wing media has told these people the world is going to hell in a handbasket, and it spins and slants the news to do it. Along comes Trump, and speaks right to them.

Postmodernism, as it were, has come to the working class. Now they have a narrative - just like all the other special interest groups. Now, they have a grievance and they're looking for representation. Even if I disagree with it, even if I don't like it, I think we'd better contend with it. Britain ignored it and got Brexit. We ignored it and got Trump.

The ESL thing is a great example. Of course I'm not against ESL education. Those kids can't be abandoned to learn the language on their own.

But, again, consider, for a second, the idea of what liberal America is up against. Not as an argument - but an obstacle.

Most of these kids are the children of refugees - who are here because of federal government policies none of these working class Americans approved -- or the children of undocumented immigrants, who are here illegally, yet working/building a life/all the things the working class does. Both of these groups are taking the jobs of the white (and black!) working class, and their children, let's face it, take the time and attention of public school districts that are already asked to do way too much because way too many kids come to school with food or a warm coat or a shower in three days.

And if you're in the working class - which prides itself on sending presentable, reasonably well-fed kids to school, which generally tells its children to fit in as best they can and follow rules - you can't help but look at the school system as a microcosm of your life. The schools do a good job of identifying the few supremely talented athletes/academics/musicians - most of whom (save some of the athletes) are from middle to middle-upper to upper class families -- and they do a dogged job (if not always good) are trying to cater to the least among its enrollment -- the non-English speakers, the refugees, the abused, the poor.

What public schools rarely have time for is the middle - the kids who aren't rich enough to have had the kind of training/extracurricular school or direct parental involvement needed to "excel" but also aren't so bereft that they evoke the samaritan sympathy of teachers.

And as it pertains to ESL kids, here's what a cousin will tell me: Why are these kids even here? Most Americans don't want their parents here. Most of their parents aren't even supposed to be here; they're breaking the law. My kid can't just show up at a great private school and go the class for free. Why do they get to take up space in our school when they're not even supposed to be here?

The thing is, oop, the best answer to that is a moral one. the economic argument - well, their parents are here because they're cheap labor being exploited for cheaper goods for all of us to buy, so we might as well educate their kids! - is disgusting, so we're left with: It's the right thing to do. And it is. But the counter-argument: Well, why do these undocumented immigrants get to be here in the first place and take working class jobs, how is that right? is valid in its own way. I can argue it - look where these immigrants come from, look what they're fleeing, it's the right thing to do, to welcome them - but there are only so many jobs and so many teachers. There is only so much for the many to share so the few can have all their heart desires.

Ultimately, the working class chooses a side. I think it's the wrong one, but hey - it's the side that acknowledges and coddles their rage, as opposed to shaming them about it because of their high-minded, we're-the-gifted ideals.

A poor kid named Anakin once made a similar choice.
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That paragraph in bold sounds like somebody is arguing that all ESL kids are the children of illegal immigrants. You do realize that isn't even close to the case, right?

If your cousin thinks "most Americans don't want them here" is a valid argument, he can kindly go fuck himself.

I don't care if you think those pageants are "more secular than anything." Christmas is a Christian holiday. Yes, I understand that it is also a secular holiday, but it is both and it has no place in public schools.

Why does it matter if the best argument for ESL programs is a moral one?

JohnHammond · Jan 7, 2017

oop, does your town put up Christmas lights or a tree on public property, or have a holiday festival? File that lawsuit!

Baron Scicluna · Jan 7, 2017

HanSenSE said: ↑

Meanwhile, Ahrnold fines back at Trump:

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Nutty thing is, I read that tweet in Arnold's voice.

Riptide · Jan 7, 2017

SnarkShark · Jan 7, 2017

He doubled down. But he's not presidente any more, so who cares?

cranberry · Jan 7, 2017

This is pretty funny stuff. He's out-trolling Trump...

Big Circus · Jan 7, 2017

Baron Scicluna said: ↑

Why does Joseph never seem to get any respect? He gets snubbed every year. He worked hard too in bringing Mary to that manger.
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This leads me to post two things. First, a great song:

Second, to bring it back down:

heyabbott · Jan 7, 2017

Neutral Corner · Jan 7, 2017

Baron Scicluna said: ↑

Why does Joseph never seem to get any respect? He gets snubbed every year. He worked hard too in bringing Mary to that manger.
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Because Joseph was a cuck.

Neutral Corner · Jan 7, 2017

http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/06/us/politics/donald-trump-intelligence.html?_r=0

BTExpress · Jan 7, 2017

heyabbott said: ↑

View attachment 1846
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That's one improvement. Add some color to the drab building. Then we add the kick-ass national anthem . . .

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President Trump: The NEW one and only politics thread

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