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President Trump: The NEW one and only politics thread

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Moderator1, Nov 12, 2016.

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  1. BTExpress

    BTExpress Well-Known Member

    Gotta love the never ending American double-standard.

    We recognize (and insist others recognize) the puppet president we installed in Ukraine after forcing out its democratically elected leader. Russia recognizes the puppet. They're pissed off about it, but they recognize him.

    But any attempts at recognizing Crimea --- which voted by referendum to join Russia --- is met with a "Noooooooooooooo!"

    What the fuck do we gain by putting our fingers in our ears and yelling, "La la la la --- we do not recognize!"
     
    BTExpress, Jan 14, 2017
    #8233
  2. Neutral Corner

    Neutral Corner Well-Known Member

    Green Men, BTE.
     
    Neutral Corner, Jan 14, 2017
    #8234
  3. cranberry

    cranberry Well-Known Member

    It's been pretty obvious for years that Putin's long game is to destabilize and break apart NATO and he is now leveraging Donald Trump to help accomplish the objective. You can leave the KGB but the KGB never leaves you.
     
    cranberry, Jan 14, 2017
    #8235
  4. BTExpress

    BTExpress Well-Known Member

    It's not a "KGB thing". It's a "national security thing".

    Russia's got a point: The U.S. broke a NATO promise

    Of course, America's broken promise was made by a president who was once director of the CIA. You can leave the CIA, but the CIA never leaves you, I guess.
     
    BTExpress, Jan 14, 2017
    #8236
  5. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    I think we can all agree that you had your priorities in order.
     
    doctorquant, Jan 14, 2017
    #8237
    dixiehack, Big Circus, JC and 1 other person like this.
  6. LanceyHoward

    LanceyHoward Well-Known Member

    I lived in Russia and partially understand where you are coming from. I also do not think the way we have treated Russia since 1990 has been a shining moment in our history by any administration. But given that there is a still active war in the Ukraine I don't see how we can lift sanctions until they get out.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2017
    LanceyHoward, Jan 14, 2017
    #8238
  7. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Doesn't that seem like a bit of rewrite of history to try to use it as an excuse for Putin justifying what he was going to do anyhow?

    It says there was no formal deal, but a quid pro quo was offered to Gorbachev -- in February, 1990. Then it says, that in LESS THAN A MONTH (by the end of February, 1990), Bush and his advisors had decided to leave the door open -- essentially rethinking any kind of promise like that. It's clear there was never anything formal there.

    So you essentially have something that was never a formal deal of any sort. But OK. And you have this thing having happened approx 25 years ago -- when Russia wasn't even Russia, it was the Soviet Union. And that is somehow supposed to be the rationale that made it OK for Putin to take Crimea (and he would have taken the whole of Ukraine if he could have gotten away with it)?

    I'm not arguing that the U.S. is pure and Russia isn't. I don't see the world that way. But let's be honest. Putin taking Crimea had little to zero to do with James Baker or George Bush. If NATO / a changing Europe was really the reason for this, and it was about failed promises of some sort, why didn't Russia do this in the mid 90s when NATO began to let in some of the former Soviet Republics and the Baltic States?

    The fact is, Gorbachev, Yeltsin, Medvedev didn't invade Ukraine when these issues would actually have fresh concerns for Russia. It was Putin, 25 years later, who started invading sovereign countries. We can look for rationalizations to make it OK, but it's kind of revisionist history.

    When the U.S. does that kind of revisionist history to justify things it wants to do, we don't give it a pass. We shouldn't be giving Russia that kind of pass either.
     
    The Big Ragu, Jan 14, 2017
    #8239
    cranberry likes this.
  8. Steak Snabler

    Steak Snabler Well-Known Member

    Sigh ...




    ---

     
    Steak Snabler, Jan 14, 2017
    #8240
    SnarkShark, Killick, Riptide and 8 others like this.
  9. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    I am like @The Big Ragu (vis-a-vis the Federal Reserve) in this matter ... the coupling of health insurance with employment (as a means of getting around WWII-era wage controls) is the "original sin" of U.S. health care policy. The preferred tax treatment of health insurance premiums has got to be done away with. Either companies shouldn't be allowed to deduct them (my preference) or their employees should pay taxes on them (as they are a large part of compensation).
     
    doctorquant, Jan 14, 2017
    #8241
    YankeeFan likes this.
  10. Michael_ Gee

    Michael_ Gee Well-Known Member

    Trump's core of support will be cheering him. They wish Don would use a club on Lewis himself instead of just a tweet.
     
    Michael_ Gee, Jan 14, 2017
    #8242
    dixiehack likes this.
  11. FileNotFound

    FileNotFound Well-Known Member

    I agree with this as a starting point. Of all the parties who stand between my doctor and me, my employer is the first one I want removed.
     
    FileNotFound, Jan 14, 2017
    #8243
    YankeeFan likes this.
  12. Vombatus

    Vombatus Well-Known Member

    Another lack of zip in a post, resulting in a cliffhanger... so, tell us, what did you drink with those four coupons?
     
    Vombatus, Jan 14, 2017
    #8244
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