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President Trump: The NEW one and only politics thread

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Moderator1, Nov 12, 2016.

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  1. Neutral Corner

    Neutral Corner Well-Known Member


     
  2. Neutral Corner

    Neutral Corner Well-Known Member

    One of these things is not like the other.

     
  3. Inky_Wretch

    Inky_Wretch Well-Known Member

    Aren't consumption taxes - especially on things like food and clothing - awfully regressive in nature?

    I'm all for income tax reform and don't mind sales taxes (as long as groceries are excluded). But can enough money be raised through them to pay for military, infrastructure and other things that I think we agree are necessities?
     
  4. Neutral Corner

    Neutral Corner Well-Known Member

    I'm sure it is entirely a coincidence that ending the Alternative Minimum Tax, the Estate Tax, and dropping both the business and personal brackets will all benefit Trump a great deal. Rachel Maddow may have pulled a Geraldo with Trump's partial tax return, but that is how we know that the AMT cost him $31m in 2005.
     
  5. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    Not necessarily.
     
  6. Inky_Wretch

    Inky_Wretch Well-Known Member

  7. BTExpress

    BTExpress Well-Known Member

    Most proposals I've seen for this kind of tax basically assume a set amount the average person spends on such, and they get a government stipend to account for it. Either that or the really basic stuff is not subject to the tax.

    There are ways around the inherent regressiveness of it.

    As a Dave Ramsey disciple I kind of like the idea of choosing how much tax I'll pay by not engaging in unnecessary consumption. Let the "OMG, my 6-month-old iPhone is so out of date; I need to upgrade!" people pay the most taxes. It's their choice.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2017
  8. Inky_Wretch

    Inky_Wretch Well-Known Member

  9. Inky_Wretch

    Inky_Wretch Well-Known Member

    I lean that way too. But I wonder if the numbers work.
     
  10. Neutral Corner

    Neutral Corner Well-Known Member

    As a local columnist put it, Roy Moore is giving up a job where he gets paid but is not allowed to walk in the door. There will be three or four candidates splitting the Bible vote, but I would not bet against his making the run-off. I don't think he can win, but in Alabama anydamnthing is possible if you have an (R) after your name.

    Walt Maddox, the mayor of Tuscaloosa, is also contemplating running. This is only a big deal because he is a Democrat with at least a decent chance of winning in a state where Democrats are on the endangered species list. He is in his third term as mayor, and took about 90% of the vote in the last election. His handling of the tornado that hit Tuscaloosa was extremely good. At this point he's still at the "not ruling it out" stage. He's a bright young man, and if he switched parties I think he'd win in a walk. We'll see how ambitious (and masochistic) he's feeling soon.
     
  11. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    America has a savings problem. Consumption taxes don't punish savings.

    It will never happen, though, because we are a nation addicted to consuming beyond our ability to produce. We want to live a fantasy. And it is why we are a nation in decline. When we couldn't produce enough, we ramped up our debt to consume. When we started to reach our limit on borrowing, we resorted to monetizing our debt, to enable even more debt.

    All of that is the enemy of saving. And saving is necessary for investment, which is what grows things. We not only consume way beyond our productivity now, but in order to do it, we have resorted to robbing from savers by shitting on our currency, in order to keep trying to run up more and more debt. We haven't reached the limit of that yet, 2008 notwithstanding, but there is a limit. To answer someone's post from earlier, a solution that says, "Well, if we are going to have a party, why not REALLY go bankrupt" . ... it doesn't work that simply. ... precisely because of the monetization of that debt. In order to enable what we have done for the last several decades, we have paid with way more future growth than we realized in the short term. It isn't a 1 for 1 tradeoff (later for now). It is a lot more later for the shortsighted now. Which is why that kind of reasoning is irresponsible.

    As for a consumption tax, yes, they can be regressive. But that conversation started with someone asking about how we fund "necessities." If we are really talking about necessities (and we can strip our Federal government bare, if it is necessities we are talking about), I'd rather have a conversation about how to make consumption taxes less onerous on poor people to derive a little revenue, because, as I said, on the margin, consumption taxes don't punish saving and investment.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2017
  12. Inky_Wretch

    Inky_Wretch Well-Known Member

    I mentioned necessities. I consider those to be military, infrastructure and education. That's about it.

    (The savings thing has always mystified me. I'm a saver. It was drilled into me as a child by my parents. So I tuck away as much as possible, cutting corners every chance I get - even when I don't need to do so.)
     
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