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President Trump: The NEW one and only politics thread

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Moderator1, Nov 12, 2016.

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  1. Michael_ Gee

    Michael_ Gee Well-Known Member

    France is not falling apart. Its economy is in much the same shape as ours, pockets of real strength mixed with pockets of real weakness, youth unemployment being the biggest of those. And despite being some of the most chronic pessimists on earth, the French love their welfare state. God, they even love its paperwork. Melenchon, the super-lefty candidate, got 20 percent in the first round. That's akin to Jill Stein getting 20 percent. The unpopularity of the current President, Hollande, stems from his inability/unwillingness to alter the eurozone austerity policies which Germany prefers and having the biggest economy, got. That of course is wrong to you, but that's what the French want.
     
  2. Songbird

    Songbird Well-Known Member

    She cuts to the bone.
     
  3. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    1) Our economy is in a 9-year depression -- being propped up by an insane amount of credit creation. And it would still be the envy of France right now. Secular stagnation doesn't even describe it. That "youth unemployment" thing you mentioned. ... it is a massive problem. Their business climate is untenable and their economy, while better than some of the southern European economies that lived a bigger fantasy than France has, has sunk to a pretty low place.
    2) Melonchon wasn't the "super-lefty" candidate. He is a communist. Not like, "Call a green party member a communist." As in, he campaigns the way Karl Marx would. He campaigned on things like a universal guaranteed salary. ... whether you work or not. It is not like Jill Stein. Meloncho has been there for decades, never taken very seriously beyond the fringe. Which should clue you in. ... why did he suddenly become a more viable candidate?
    3) Indeed, the reason that a clown like that got the support he did (same holds for Marine Le Pen's populism) is precisely because of what I said. The country is such a mess than people are turning to the fringe. ... rather than voting for the BS promises they latched onto that created the mess they now want to revolt against. It's what got Donald Trump elected here. Except there, the problems are worse than what the rust belt has been feeling here.
    4) With respect, you still don't understand how an absolute bozo like Donald Trump got elected (things aren't bad here, they are great!). ... Get out of your bubble. Same as, you have no clue what is going on in France. If you get your news from the 16th arrondissement in Paris, indeed, things are just peachy.
     
  4. tapintoamerica

    tapintoamerica Well-Known Member

    Did Obamacare take insurance away from people?
     
  5. Michael_ Gee

    Michael_ Gee Well-Known Member

    Ragu, I was just in France. My daughter lives there. To say their economy is in depression is false. To say ours is is borderline nuts. Melenchon got 20 percent because the socialist left chose him over the party candidate in protest of Hollande. Unless the polls are wronger than any polls in the history of polling, Macron will be elected by what in the US would be regarded as a landslid. He's the closest thing to the status quo in the race. LePen's strength is the same as Trump's. Racism and xenophobia are a big thing in France just they are here.
     
  6. Songbird

    Songbird Well-Known Member

     
    cyclingwriter2 likes this.
  7. Michael_ Gee

    Michael_ Gee Well-Known Member

    Clinton never led by as many as 10 points in the polls. Five days before the election, Macron is up 60-40.
     
  8. MisterCreosote

    MisterCreosote Well-Known Member

    Well, for starters, his views on privacy and how they differ for himself and everyone else in the world.

    He doesn't "believe" in privacy rights, but tried to buy/seize family lands to create his own private estate, then sued hundreds of people to ensure no one else had the right to even set foot there.
     
    SnarkShark and YankeeFan like this.
  9. outofplace

    outofplace Well-Known Member

    YF is one of the vigilantes?
     
  10. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    1) You might want to consider that your tourist's view of France may not be giving you a clue about what millions of people -- say in say, Thoinville or Hénin-Beaumont -- are living the last decade. Their version of the rust belt has suffered even worse than ours has. That protest against Hollande? What are they protesting? Answer: the mealy, socialist, free lunch, no price to pay mess they created for themselves over the last few decades, culminating in Hollande.
    2) Our economy has grown at less than trend for 9 years -- with unprecedented "stimulus" (trillions of dollars of asset buying to create endless credit) that was supposed to create breakout growth but has just put us into massive debt (by monetizing it). We are living on credit right now to hold off having to deal with reality. This quarter, even with their inability to measure it honestly, they printed growth of .7 percent last week. This has been our RECOVERY off some pretty low lows. Again with respect, wait until the history books identify a depression in hindsight for you.
    3) At what point do you look at all of the populism around the world (including here) and choose to understand that people are motivated by their standard of living, not some mysterious racism and xenophobia gene. That racism and xenophobia is not the cause. It's the symptom of the actual cause.
    4) As I said, get out of your bubble. What the ECB has done for Europe (not the EU, but the central bank keeping the status quo of socialist promises that bankrupted the continent) is what we have gotten here with our shenanigans. But there, it is more exaggerated. When you monetize more and more debt, you make rich people richer -- by blowing asset bubbles that appreciate the things only those people can buy. That eventually ends in a massive credit crisis -- which you (and most people) won't see until we are in the aftermath paying the price. In the interim, it makes a small group of elitists richer. ... while working class stiffs who are increasingly more and more helpless are grabbing their pitchforks. What you see is racism, though.
    5) Macron is going to win -- very, very likely. The fact that this is the election they even are having is remarkable, in itself.
     
    cyclingwriter2 likes this.
  11. Michael_ Gee

    Michael_ Gee Well-Known Member

    I agree with the last part. My personal opinion is that Macron will win because a majority of the French are heavily into "respectability" and LePen is not that. In their long struggle between the bourgeoisie and those who identify as workers, the former usually wins. Americans of all political persuasions don't care much about respectability. We have a (shrinking) middle class, but not a bourgeoisie.
    I think we also both agree that the euro was a terrible idea that's done a lot of needless damage. Otherwise, we don't.
     
  12. Inky_Wretch

    Inky_Wretch Well-Known Member

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