1. Welcome to SportsJournalists.com, a friendly forum for discussing all things sports and journalism.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register for a free account to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Access to private conversations with other members.
    • Fewer ads.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

President Trump: The NEW one and only politics thread

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Moderator1, Nov 12, 2016.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. MisterCreosote

    MisterCreosote Well-Known Member

    You know what one of the biggest bureaucracies in America is?

    The U.S. military.

    Not every bureaucracy is full of people hellbent on taking away your "freedom" for the sake of their own egos.
     
  2. Michael_ Gee

    Michael_ Gee Well-Known Member

    Every Fortune 500 company is a large bureaucracy. The Social Security Administration, which thwarts democracy and freedom by helping older people not live in squalid poverty, is too. So is the Harvard Medical School teaching hospital complex (MGH and Mt. Auburn) and its doctor networks. A big country is gonna have big systems. Bigness itself is neither good nor bad. It's what bigness is used for that counts.
     
  3. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Yes, our military is a run away bureaucracy. ... the "military-industrial complex" that Eisenhower warned of has grown beyond what he probably even could have imagined.

    Why does everyone have to mischaracterize what I said in order to try to make their point? That stupid @cranberry post. ... And then your post. I didn't say anything close to "hellbent" blah, blah, blah, taking away your freedom, their egos, blah blah blah. Can't you respond to what I posted instead of a buffoonish distortion?

    I don't think every 4-star general is hellbent on taking away my freedom, for what it is worth. I do think that they are a part of something that doesn't work to the benefit of most people in this country. The EFFECTS of what they do to stay much larger than is necessary (and keep themselves relevant), undoubtedly erode our liberties. Whether it is the property that gets confiscated from people in the form of taxes, in order to fund a giant military force that we can't even afford anyhow (as is the case with lots of things like this). Or outright civil liberties breaches, such as what the Patriot Act did as part of our militarization.

    I pointed out in that post that bureaucracies thrive on the perception of crisis to justify their existence. In the case of the military, when there aren't enough crises, they often manufacture them. I can think of so many examples. The Gulf of Tonkin. ... an alleged attack on our Navy by a North Viednamese torpedo boat leads to our military going to Vietnam (without Congressional approval). The whole WMD thing with Saddam Hussein. ... and we are invading Iraq (again, without Congressional approval).
     
  4. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Well-Known Member

    Bureaucracies are necessary, no doubt. But, holy shit, can they be difficult to navigate, especially in Illinois, I feel. Lot of "not my job" that goes on when you're trying to get an answer to a simple problem.

    For five years, I worked at a (private) law firm that was very big and, therefore, very bureaucratic. It paid well, but was so frustrating for me that I eventually had to leave it. (There were plenty of other reasons, too. But this was a big one). Now I work at a small place. I'm given an assignment, I carry out the assignment, I file it with the court. People don't even edit my briefs, let alone rewrite them. It's glorious.
     
    Donny in his element likes this.
  5. YankeeFan

    YankeeFan Well-Known Member

    To be fair, almost every single republican congress member and senator ran on repealing and replacing ObamaCare, and most had previously voted to repeal it.

    They've earned an excoriation.
     
  6. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    If a Fortune 500 company devolves into a ball of red tape that exists to benefit the people working for the company rather than the customers of that company. ... the difference is that it affects the owners of that mismanaged company. It's not something being imposed by law on everyone in the country. In a competitive world, a company that doesn't supply demand for something can't survive. Government bureaucracies don't need that kind of accountability. Their justification is a crisis. Not a profit (as it is for that company). The fact that they exacerbate the crises that are the basis for their existence, is the exact opposite of the dynamic with that Fortune 500 company. If red tape makes a Fortune 500 company less profitable, it works to the detriment of the company. If a government bureaucracy fails, it's justification for MORE of that bureaucracy. They ALWAYS fail, precisely because that is the motivation they have.
     
  7. Neutral Corner

    Neutral Corner Well-Known Member

    They're all horrible. Strange's vote will be a McConnell proxy vote, while both Brooks and Roy Moore are full bore right wing loonies. McConnell does not want to see them win because he already had trouble keeping all the frogs in the wheelbarrow as it is. I'm hoping that he gets stuck with six years of Roy Moore. Moore won't get a good committee seat or bring home the bacon, but he'll be a big pain in the turtle's ass.

    For Senate in Alabama, who's the Trumpiest of them all?
     
  8. Michael_ Gee

    Michael_ Gee Well-Known Member

    Bureaucracies do not always fail. That's just not so. The Social Security Administration and the Medicare-Medicaid administration are oft-frustrating bureaucracies whose customers are, however, by and large well satisfied with them. As for private sector bureaucratic corporations failing if they mire customers in red tape, have you dealt with Comcast and/or Verizon recently? Or any airline?
     
    TowelWaver likes this.
  9. Neutral Corner

    Neutral Corner Well-Known Member

    Healthcare reform was never about making healthcare better for the Republicans. It was about taking a trillion dollars out of the health care budget and giving it to the 1% as tax cuts. Killing Obamacare and a couple of other hobbyhorses was the excuse.
     
    HanSenSE likes this.
  10. MisterCreosote

    MisterCreosote Well-Known Member

    You posted that bureaucracy "is the enemy of a democracy and freedom." That's a pretty clearly stated point I was responding to.
     
  11. tapintoamerica

    tapintoamerica Well-Known Member

    This is great. The Senators who killed this version of Trumpcare didn't give their president a heads-up.
    Trump blindsided by implosion of GOP health care bill
    Trump told us he was the great deal maker, a negotiator so awesome that nobody would oppose him. This, he said, is why his inexperience in politics was irrelevant.
    I still don't think he'll pay any price for anything, but if the Congress does turn on him, this will be the point at which it all began.
     
  12. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    We can't pay for those programs. We are burying ourselves in debt for them and they are increasingly closer to insolvency. Worse, though, in the case of Medicare-Medicaid, what those bureaucracies did was take something that was banrkupting us slowly already (created in the first place on the basis of crisis, and have spent decades exacerbating the problems). ... and the bureaucracy is now even bigger. In the process, we damaged the market for health care further. ... because the overhand of the price fixing distortions those programs impose on the market creates bigger and bigger inefficiencies. This is exactly why people's health insurance premiums (who aren't being subsidized) have gotten so big, and their insurance choices and health care have been destroyed.

    It's not just about how satisified someone receiving an entitlement is with Medicare or Medicaid or Social Security. It's the damage you do overall by imposing those things on everyone. If I rob everyone's house on your block (including yours) and play robin hood a neighborhood over, do you look at it as, "Well, the people in the next neighborhood are very satisified"? Worse, though, if in the process of robbing your home, I break all of your windows and tear up your lawn, leaving a lot of damage behind, do you even look at the net effect as, "Well, he just shifted some stuff around"? To me, that is the relevant kind of analogy.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2017
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page