President Trump: The NEW one and only politics thread

Well, they must have! They let him do it!

 

This discussion about whether it was an established fact that Trump "bragged about sexual assault" is a point I once summoned @Double Down for, but he was on sabbatical. Would enjoy hearing his opinion on it.

 

You are responding to an imaginary post.

 

You didn't have to wonder. You chose to wonder. You chose to suggest the possibility of something sinister.

What you said and what you are protesting you didn't say are on the same continuum.

 

You must not have understood the proper procedure to summon me. You have to stare deeply into a bottle of Koval and sing, in your most melodic voice:
Jason Isbell is the best songwriter of his generation.
Jason Isbell is the best songwriter of his generation.
Jason Isbell is the best songwriter of his generation.

My feeling on this subject is that it's somewhat absurd to get bogged down in the semantics of the language put forth by a serial liar. If the defense that he is not bragging about sexual assault rides on his claim of "When you're a star, they let you do it," and that their inaction implies consent, that's absurd. As I pointed out in posting the Jedd Legum thread a few pages back, at least as many as 16 women have expressed that Trump made unwanted advances toward them.

What you're saying, Dick, is that Trump is not bragging about committing sexual assault because he does not believe he committed sexual assault. He is bragging that women will let him grab their pussies and let him kiss them (as long as he has Tic Tacs!) because he is a star. He doesn't even have to wait for consent.

Look, I understand your argument. But this is not a philosophy class, and an argument over where to put a comma or semicolon.

From Trump's perspective, he is not bragging about committing sexual assault.

From virtually anyone else's perspective, Trump is bragging about acts that are sexual assault, even if he does not believe they are sexual assault. His own statements confirm it.

1. He doesn't even wait. (This is an admission of the act.)
2. If you're a star, they let you do it. (This is a presumption on Trump's part that in no way gives us any idea these women consented to this. They may have let him do it out of fear, as we saw with Weinstein. I would suspect many did.)

Saying that Trump is NOT bragging about committing sexual assault requires both of the following to be true:

1. We can only see/read this statement from Trump's perspective, no one else's.
2. All of the women he ever groped or grabbed by the pussy were ok with it, and in letting him do it, giving their consent.

Trump bragged about something.
The "something" that Trump was bragging about was sexual assault, even if he believes otherwise.

 

You would write it as an established fact in a piece?

 

In truth? I don't know.

Is it theoretically possible that Trump has never inappropriately touched a woman, doing things to her without her consent, despite numerous women having come forward to accuse him of that behavior?

I supposed it's theoretically possible. Is that our standard for an established fact? If there is any chance, however remote, that it can be disputed? I would likely just state what Trump said — Pussy grabbing and all — and what women said about him. Let that be the established facts.

 

Yes. Because it's an established fact.

 

If you have any experience with women, you can usually get a sense of when a woman is into you an when she isn't.

That said, I don't know a single guy who didn't go in for a kiss, only to get the head turn, and land on a cheek, or conversely, who finally mustered up the courage to try and kiss a girl, long after the girl had been telling her friends that she was sending every single she could, but he still hadn't tried to kiss her.

Which is just a long way of saying that making an "advance" on a woman, and taking "no" for an answer is a normal part of everyday life.

Add in that women were probably often excited to meet Trump -- because he's a celebrity, not because they wanted to fuck him -- and it could get tougher to decipher what the other party was interested in.

But, here's the big difference:

Harvey was a powerful guy in an industry that beautiful young girls are trying to get into. He had the power to advance, or to kill someone's career. Women he gave roles to won Academy Awards.

His proposition was, sleep with me/blow me/let me go down on you/give me a massage/watch me take a shower, and I will help your career. Don't, and I will crush you.

For a young actress, or employee, that's a lot of leverage, and a gigantic power differential.

Trump meanwhile considered himself to be not only famous, but a playboy, a good looking guy, and a guy that had dated beautiful women.

His proposition wasn't, "fuck me or else". It was if you fuck me, you'll have the pleasure of fucking a good looking, famous playboy.

He assumed women wanted to be with him, and he was often right. When he was wrong, he took no for an answer.

He wasn't trying to manipulate his conquests like Weinstein was.

Again, listen to the O'Dell story.

He tried hard to fuck her. He TOOK HER FURNITURE SHOPPING and he still got nowhere.

That's very different than inviting a young actress to a public meeting, and then having your assistant deliver her to your hotel room, where you emerge naked from the tub.

 

Have we determined the definition of "sexual assault" on this site? That would be my question because when he says he uses tic tacs because he never knows when he might have the occasion to "just start kissing them" and he laughs about it, I would call that and the other things he said on that tape, bragging. Now look at what the women have said--you can even discount the ex as that has been denied by her-- but the others say he did to them the same things he "BRAGGED" about to the guy on the bus. If those things don't fall under the category of sexual assault, then you have a point. But they are my definition of it.

And very good point on the "they let you do it" explanation...That was amazing for that poster to explain how in many cases---I don't know how many because I don't know everything in the world--"letting him do it" is because of the shock, fear, embarrassment and other things that person is feeling. Their intent is NOT to let him do it.
I can't believe this is still a thing. Like I said, I don't know everything that goes on in the world or other peoples minds. But I do know, donald trump was bragging.

1 More Woman Accuses Trump Of Inappropriate Sexual Conduct. Here's The Full List read the details.

 

All liars. Or, they mistook his chance for a 'peck on the cheek' as an unwanted advance/sexual assault
Donald Trump sexual misconduct allegations - Wikipedia