Even The Wolf likely can't clean up Harvey Weinstein's pending troubles

The timing of the Ansari date is notable. It was September 25, several days before the Weinstein story broke and the movement began in earnest. Doesn’t he get more leeway for his behavior than if it has happened, say, last weekend? In other words, if one of the missions of the movement is to raise awareness in men that behavior previously thought of as standard mating ritual is no longer acceptable, is it really notably hypocritical that he would have acted this way on September 25 and worn a Time’s Up pin 3 1/2 months later? Instead of marking him as a hypocrite, is it possible that the pin marks him as a convert? A success story of the movement?

 

The "standard enlightenment stuff" is at least based in some sense of logic, unlike the standard Christian viewpoint, for which the entry point is usually some version of "we need to return to some long lost time (that really never existed) when virtuous young women saved their virginity for marriage (which in itself represented a male exercise of control over women, BTW)." That belief is dependent on your "shallow culture" theory, which requires ignoring all evidence of evolving viewpoints and agreeing there is "stagnation" (as you put it) because men are either incapable of being educated and conditioned to treat women with equality and respect, or that all the different efforts to instill those values in men over the past 50 years have failed. That's an unfounded, bullshit narrative.

 

Isn't that an interesting thought?

Now, argue that something isn't newsworthy. I'm cool with that. But, now it sounds like we shouldn't publish news that doesn't help to advance the #MeToo movement, which is really troubling.

 

I think a big problem in some of these situations is that men's and women's sexuality is still viewed differently -- even by women.

I firmly believe that a woman should be able to make guilt free decisions about who she chooses to engage in sexual activity with.

But, not only do women feel pressure to sleep with guys they don't want to, they also feel pressure to not sleep with guys, unless the circumstances are right.

And, so we see "third date" sex as the standard. We see a woman willing to engage in oral sex on the first date, but wanting to withhold intercourse until the second date.

We see a woman willing to engage in sex on a first date, who also wants to signal to their date that this is outside of her usual behavior.

A guy never feels compelled to send any of these signals. No man alive is worried about how he'll be judged if he engages in sex on the first date. No guy ever worries that the woman won't view him as a long term partner, if he gives it up too early.

I don't know how to resolve this, but until it changes, sex is always going to be more consequential for women.

 

Maybe we can sew newborn boys' testicles to their hearts.

 

If this were a mainstream publication, I'd be right there with you. I don't know if it's as much of a concern at Babe.net (which my work filter flags as a porn site),

 

Yeah, but the argument that stories like this shouldn't be published if they do damage to the #MeToo movement applies to main stream news organizations.

 

Now I get it. You're all the assholes dads used to warn their daughters about!

What ever happened to dating, getting to know someone, spending time together, before turning into monkeys?

 

There are so many threads to this now it becomes hard to keep track of, but I do believe some of the "this doesn't help the #MeToo movement" think pieces are responsive to what seemed to be Babe.net's explicit or implicit purpose to help the #MeToo movement, i.e. the story was triggered by Ansari wearing a Time's Up pin at the Golden Globes.

For all of its faults, the Ansari piece does provide a new, useful case that puts the following issue on the table: We know it is wrong to proceed without consent. But does it constitute misconduct to continue to ask for sex after the withdrawal of consent? Cabining Ansari's movement of the woman's hand to his penis five to seven times, which I think is the most troubling passage in the story, much of the rest of it consists of her giving him "verbal and non-verbal cues" that she wasn't interested in continuing with sex, and him continuing to ask for it. Is that misconduct?

 

Sometimes I don't realize what an old fogey I am ... and then I read that the "standard mating ritual" might actually involve a quick dinner out and then dining at the Y once we're back at my place ... and by God then I realize it.

 

Even in the 20 years or so between my dating lives, the changes have been... dramatic. I think part of it is being older and more confident, but yeah. Springing for an appetizer along with a main course now counts as serious courtship.

 

I think too many of you old farts are conflating this particular babe.net scenario (Hollywood celebrity, and a would be star-fucker (if it went to a second date)) and the real world. I have a son and daughter who are "Grace"'s age. I don't claim to know everything about their lives, but in no way do I think that most (non-Tinder) first dates with them or their friends involve scarfing down a quick dinner, then 20 minutes later eating each other out.

Hollywood does not equal real life.