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Penn State scorn versus Michigan State scorn

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by poindexter, Jan 18, 2018.

  1. Alma

    Alma Well-Known Member

    I guess I'm one of these folks who more or less wants people to be exactly who they are, so some 11th-hour invasion of empathy from Simon would have struck me as false. She was losing her job no matter what, and I expect the AD will lose his job and however many other administrators will, too. I don't agree with her approach, but I believe she believes what she wrote in her resignation letter, and to the great extent that she's wrong, well, she's now also out of a job, and on we go.

    Nassar pleaded guilty in November to 7 or 10 charges. (It seems murky to me how many, 7 for sure.) It was a plea bargain with the Michigan attorney general designed, I'd presume, to not force women to testify in open court against Nassar and be cross-examined. Nassar was almost certain to be found guilty either way, but the trial would have taken a chunk out of these victims. It also may have greatly reduced the number of women who came forward, since doing so opened them up to the possibility of having to testify against him.

    What I'm guessing Nassar didn't know (and what I think his letter is in part about) is that the judge would take that guilty plea and turn it into four days of impact statements with national media coverage, the kicker of which was the judge reading selected excerpts of Nassar's letter (which was written to her? his defense attorney? someone else?) after all of the impact statements were over, followed by the words "I just signed your death warrant."

    And that's not to say Nassar didn't deserve all that. He did. But he didn't plead guilty to more than 100 charges. So I could see him making the argument - unsuccessfully, I'm sure - that the judge levied the sentence based on four days of impact statements, not the charges at hand.

    Still, I can see why the judge did what she did. She put a spotlight on the case and the trial, and that media spotlight is hotter than the results of the trial. This is a much bigger story than it was 2 weeks ago precisely because of those impact statements. And there will now be all the investigations and firings that people called for all along.
     
    Donny in his element likes this.
  2. FileNotFound

    FileNotFound Well-Known Member

    Which, ultimately, may be the best end result for all involved: A light gets shined on not only the evil Nassar, but the institutions that allowed him to continue being a monster; the leadership for the failed institutions, particularly USA Gymnastics, is held accountable; and, maybe, abuse survivors will feel empowered to step forward and know that the legal system has their backs when nobody else does.

    The tone-deafness at MSU is stunning. I know that they're trying to "limit their liability" and all that, but I think we might have run into a situation where they might have been over-lawyered. This goes against every instinct of the journalist in me, but it might truly be better if Simon and the board stick with "no comment" from this point on. There's really nothing they can say that will help the public understand the situation.
     
    Donny in his element likes this.
  3. poindexter

    poindexter Well-Known Member

    Which lawyer is responsible for this? "There’s so many more things going on at the university than just this Nassar thing."
     
  4. FileNotFound

    FileNotFound Well-Known Member

    I was referring mostly to the statements Simon has made. Ferguson's idiocy (long documented) is a special brand of stupid.
     
  5. LongTimeListener

    LongTimeListener Well-Known Member

    I've worked at two universities where I was close enough to interact with trustees. That word gets such exalted status, but really it just means some old rich person who bought the seat for his or her ego. Drunkenness is often involved too.
     
  6. poindexter

    poindexter Well-Known Member

    With all due respect, I don't agree with much of this (except for the tone deaf part). I don't think any competent counsel was involved. Competent counsel would have told the Trustees and others to STFU. Competent counsel would have told them to be IN FRONT of the case, not 3 steps behind. Competent counsel would have told the president to show up for the sentencing.

    To me, it is pretty clear, based on her comments last week, as well as turd Ferguson's comments, that they were expecting to weather the storm, and let this thing blow over.
     
    Donny in his element likes this.
  7. Alma

    Alma Well-Known Member

    The legal system had their backs this time. It's not always the case.

    And, yes, I think Michigan State's coolness to this issue is related to limiting liability. And, on some level, Michigan State is a warning to institutions, to anyone, that just blithely believe doctors. I think Nassar told them his procedure was sound medical practice and they chose to believe it because the alternative was too heinous to grasp, even if the alternative was the truth.

    This is additionally true of some of the gymnasts themselves. Jordyn Wieber on Nassar in 2012: “We would never survive without him. He basically fixes you, and it’s almost like magic.”

    Now, if Wieber, subjected to the assault, could say that after years of being (unbeknownst to her) assaulted by Nassar, it's far more plausible that college administrators would shrug off concerns or allegations. I'm not saying it's right. I am saying it's in the normal range of human plausibility. Simon can be wrong - is wrong, was wrong - and simultaneously not be a horrible person just because she was wrong.

    Here's Simon on the day she actually went to court:



    She's confronted by a victim during her presser. I don't think the exchange goes well. Further, I don't think Simon has the kind of personality for whatever it is the media and/or the victims were looking for. I could say "get a better personality" but, then, what am I doing? Hoping for social engineering? Some people don't emote or project empathy.
     
  8. Alma

    Alma Well-Known Member

    Who knows what they expected. In her short courtroom presser, Simon says she's just learning of the victims as the impact statements are unfolding. I believe her. Many of these women came forward to give their statements - so many, in fact, the statements went on for an extra day. So her growing awareness of the magnitude of the problem...I believe her in that. It doesn't make her right, and it doesn't mean she should have a job, which she no longer does. And more will lose their jobs.
     
  9. FileNotFound

    FileNotFound Well-Known Member

    It's a pretty blatant example of how most university communities are pretty much a bubble, I guess.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2018
  10. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    Imagine you work at one of these institutions. Further imagine that you are accused of doing something heinous. Finally, imagine that whatever you're accused of ... you didn't do it, anything like it, anything within 10 zipcodes of it.

    Now suppose they do an investigation. Within 30 seconds of its launch, it's clear to the investigator(s) that you didn't do anything wrong.

    Do you want the documentation of the allegations and the investigation to be a public record?
     
  11. poindexter

    poindexter Well-Known Member

    Is this a taxpayer-funded institution? I think transparency should be paramount.
     
  12. heyabbott

    heyabbott Well-Known Member

    Turd Ferguson just wants to be court side for Izzo, go to bowl games and have steak and lobster at the cocktail parties.
    You are so right that they wanted to weather the storm. But their plan wasn’t a bad one, until recently.

    The plan is that this is foremost a gymnastics issue, a US Gymnstaics team issue, an Olympic issue and that Michigan State University was just a place Nasser worked. But there’s no one from “gymnastics” to put on video, there’s no one from Team USA Gymnastics to put on video and there’s no one from US Olympics to put on video. So get the President of the State University. Mark Hollis and Ron Mason were the MSU ADs. Why is Hollis employed? Why isn’t Mason’s legacy being dragged through the shit. If you go up the chain of command from Nasser, you hit the AD before the University President.You hit the VP for Athletics or whatever that title is before the President. The President is an easy figure head whose actual liability and awareness of the issues may be determined. But the coaches and ADs are the bad guys. But basketball is ranked,hockey is good, football makes money. And in the eyes of everyone, until last week, the AD had his arms Tom Izzo andMark Dantonio. Some girls getting molested will not be allowed to affect the legends, the money and the parties.
     
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