Today in Cultural Appropriation

FWIW, I was not writing to create straw men. Perhaps "shut up" is too blunt a phrase, but I think other phrases are just kind of euphemisms for "shut up." When you describe your opinion on a YouTube video consumed by millions of people as "absolutely worthless," I feel like it's saying "shut up."

But I didn't write with the intention of being facetious. I really think the idea is for white people to stop talking about race from their own perspective, listen full-time to blacks (and other people of color) not argue or interject, and simply absorb, over the course of many years, a position historically different from their own, until they understand it enough to agree with it and make evident policy course corrections.

Because what I used to say was "well, hey, let's get down to brass tacks, save everyone the rhetoric, and just hash out how we can make the black American experience more livable. Let's talk terms - roll back mandatory minimum laws, give tax breaks, lower the bar on probation - and improve things" And more than once I've told I don't get it. I'm the one in those conversations who's like, "disarm the cops" and what I've learned is the conversation is viewed as essential. The black Americans have to be able to say all the things they haven't said, white people gotta take it, and this process is essential to racial reconciliation, because it's about trust - or the utter lack of it - between black and white Americans.

I'm dubious as to whether this conversation is much more than a liberal rhetorical strongarm - the rules of intersectionality indicate to me that there's a long line of aggrieved persons ready to take the mic - but I view this conversation as part of the essence of the larger issue of race in America. White people have to listen and listen and listen and listen, and not retort, as part of whites' collective penance for what whites' have historically done - and continue to do - to black people. This penance is actually grace, since white people, as a race, deserve far worse for what they've done to blacks, but the listening part is essential.

What am I missing here? Are you going to say I'm missing something because I don't quite agree? If I've left something out, let's hear it.

Rick's work on this site strikes me as insincere. His work indicates he's motivated not by some desire for change, but a inborn certitude that nothing will change and, if it ever did, that he'd punish the former status quo with wrath.

 

No, I don't feel morally superior. I think the reaction of other people is just weird.

Go through this thread and look at how many people get absolutely agitated over the topic. You and Batman are both doing the "So I guess we're all just racist assholes, huh?!?" thing. And that's just going back a page - you guys have plenty of company.

Why is it so hard to have any discussion of anything race-related without getting so defensive? I mean, I'm a pretty privileged white guy in a mostly white neighborhood who grew up in a mostly white place. I can acknowledge that and still hear things from a black perspective and not think "So I guess I'm just a big racist, huh?!?" Again - not me being morally superior. It's me not understanding why people react like that.

Non SJ example -- on my Facebook feed the other day there was a post that popped up about the anniversary of the release of "16 Candles." One of the comments was from a guy who said "It really doesn't hold up well. Pretty racist." It had dozens of responses from people who were fucking FURIOUS. Every post was "Snowflakes blah blah PC blah blah appropriation blah blah I GUESS I'M A FUCKING RACIST!" And all I could think was, have any of you actually watched this movie? Yeah, I loved it as a teenager, too. It has a central character named Long Duk Dong who is a sex-starved Chinese exchange student whose big line is "No more yankee my wankie - the Donger need food!" It hasn't held up well. It's racist as fuck. It shouldn't be that hard to acknowledge that something you found hilarious 30+ years ago is really, really uncomfortable to watch now.

 

Nope, no moral superiority here!

 

Much obliged.

 

The point isn't that as a white person you don't get to speak.

The point is, if a black man is his specific perspective of gun violence in the black community and how people of color are treated in the media, maybe just listen to that. Your opinion on how a black man feels really doesn't mean much. My opinion really doesn't mean much. You're certainly free to have a view of the art, but as white dudes our perspective on the statement is worthless. There's much greater value in trying to understand his perspective than in trying to debate it.

And look, I've dogged Rick on this site far more than I've supported him. He tends to lead with a knee jerk Twitter-style flamethrower opinion on stuff. But if you actually listen to what he's saying on most of this thread, he's not wrong.

 

Really?

Have you seen the movie? What about that do I have wrong? I thought it was hilarious as a teen. In 2018 I think the Chinese character saying "no more yankee my wankie" -- followed by the sound of a gong -- is kinda uncomfortable. Does that really make me morally superior? Is the bar THAT low?

 

For whatever reason, this reminds me of the time a couple years ago I was singing the virtues of Mr. Show with Bob & David -- the sketch in which GloboChem is pitched PitPat the pansexual spokesthing. Of course it had been 15 years since I watched the skit last, but I had my coworker, who happened to be gay and pretty engaged in LGBTQ concerns watching it on YouTube. Suffice to say, there wasn't so much as a giggle while I cringed and tried to make light of how it has aged.

 

I'm not morally superior. You're all just morally inferior. It's not quite the same thing.

 

So what you're saying is you don't understand and he is hitting a nerve.

 

The white perspective on race is literally just society. Shutting up and listening for a little while until things balance out *on some issues* will not kill us.

 

Well, I guess Blazing Saddles is out of the question, then.

 

So you are telling us to shut up and listen...to a couple of white guys?