2018 Pro Wrestling thread

I think David was the best pure wrestler out of Fritz's kids. Kerry had the look and charisma.

 

Most WCCW fans put David ahead of everyone else in the clan. But I always loved Kevin, thought he was as good or better than David in the ring. Kerry got the WWF deal because he had the look Vince liked -- lots of muscles and a handsome face.

 

Vince wanted to bring Kerry in when he was in his early 20s but he remained loyal to his family. Makes you wonder if he would have gone down the path he did if he did sign with the WWF back then. Always thought the history of the Von Erich’s, while tragic, to be very fascinating.

 

-- Before around 2012, no; ever since, absolutely. I can't think of another wrestler of his caliber who has freshened up his in-ring repertoire and been willing to experiment with new moves like Cena has. His feuds with Bryan and Punk in 2012-13 had a major positive impact on him.
-- That would help, but I'm not sure that's all of it. I said this before, but Roman desperately needs an injury that'll put him on the shelf and take him off TV for six months. Reboot his whole act, expand his set of four moves into six, and when he comes back embrace the boos and turn him into a major heel. Maybe with a turn on superface Rollins as jealous payback for Rollins' turn when the Shield broke up.
-- Austin wasn't the greatest, but he was fine.
-- I like Breeze, but I'm not sure what you mean by this. A U.S. title run? Give Breezango the tag belts at some point?
-- No. No it does not. Two and the tag belts is plenty. There's already not enough room on PPVs for the Cruiserweight belt. Besides, the Women's championships are serving in that role already.
-- Truth. Flair was the face of the Horsemen. Anderson was the heart and soul.
-- No, although they could stand to freshen up the pursuit a bit. One idea I had was for the women's MITB. Have Charlotte win the MITB and then Carmella beat Asuka -- with interference from Charlotte. Charlotte then announces she's cashing in at Summerslam. Unlike the traditional sneaky cash-in that Carmella used to win the title, Carmella will see this one coming and have to dread it for months. In the meantime, Charlotte settles into a role as Carmella's henchman, helping her cheat to keep the title to ensure she makes it to Summerslam as champion.

-- Disagree on Rollins. They're building him up into a generational talent. That always involves beating others, but he's making them look good in the process. He made Mojo Freakin' Rawley look good in one of the IC title matches, for chrissakes.

-- The past 10 years or so, I agree. Granted, he's a part-time talent, but he's won two matches in the past three years. One of those was a 10-man Survivor Series match and the other was at a house show in India. Even when he has put himself in the spotlight it seems to be in service of putting guys over (Daniel Bryan, Reigns, Strowman) or it's been in side feuds (like Sting) that didn't affect the big picture.

-- Don't know enough of the nitty gritty of their careers to have an opinion on Windham or the Von Erichs.

 

Agreed
Agreed, although he needs to add to his in-ring arsenal.
In-ring, in his early days, he was very good. But injuries and style slowed him down.
Not the best thing, but he could be so much more for them.
Nah, they're already have enough with men's and women's.
Totally agree
The concept is fine. But they need to vary the buildup and followup better. Too many guys talking on ladders, too many pretend cash-ins.
Disagree. Top talent need to step up their game.
Disagree. He could have done more.
I was just going to call him one of the most underrated wrestlers ever.
Nope. David was the best. He could talk and wrestle, like a Randy Orton type. Kevin would be a Ziggler type today.

 

OK, explaining my reasoning on these:

Batman basically made the argument I'd make. I'd also say even earlier in his career, his ability to sell moves and tell a story in the ring was pretty good.

It would need a total revamp of what he does, but right now, they're trying too hard to make him an antihero. He'll never be Stone Cold. Stop trying to make him into that.

Pretty much sums itself up. He was great but too many people put him as one of the top five all-time. Without great in-ring ability, you shouldn't be in that group.

Breeze should be early Jericho right now -- an entertaining performer who is building a name for himself as a singles wrestler en route to being a future champion. But he didn't get over immediately when they called him up, so they threw him to the wayside. They finally found something for him to do with Fandango, but he could be so much more.

I support this for two reasons. 1) I always loved the idea of a TV title. It gave the lower-tier stars something to strive for. 2) The WWE's writers have shown they suck writing storylines that don't involve a title, and great wrestlers like Roode and Zayn are getting lost in the mix because of that.

Corollary: Arn delivered the greatest spinebuster in wrestling history. Textbook.

The matches are fine, but the pursuit has become the same over and over. If they'd do something different with it, it would be better. But we keep getting the same thing for cash-ins -- heel wins, waits until champ is beat down or worn out from a match, cashes in and becomes champ. Do something different with it, something like Batman suggests, and it would freshen it up. Otherwise, it's the same story told again.

I know they're doing this to build him, and it might pay off if they'll use it to get him against Lesnar and let him beat Lesnar. But until we see that payoff, they're taking guys like Kevin Owens and making them look weaker. And without a world-title-level payoff at the end, it isn't worth it. (Admittedly, part of my assessment here is based off the fact I think they're wasting Owens, and the loss to Rollins didn't help him at all.)

There was a time this was an issue, but he has also put over a LOT of guys.

He's one of those guys that everyone who worked with him will tell you how incredible he was, but he never got pushed consistently to the top because he didn't have "the look" or whatever reason bookers had for preferring guys like Luger.

The Von Erich family story is just tragic. I think there was a time when Kevin ended up spending time focusing on trying to resurrect WCCW when he should've been concentrating on finding his way to be a success in the ring outside of that federation when it was dying.

 

Probably would have fizzled out quicker on the WWF schedule. He already was into alcohol and drugs in a big way in the early 80s.

Also, little-know fact, but Kevin, Kerry and David all did one-shot deals at MSG in late 70s, early 80s. A lot of territory guys did that, both to fill out the card, and give Vince Sr. a chance to scout talent.

 

Kevin also had a dark match with the WWF in the early 1990s, if I remember right.

 

I really started to respect Cena's in-ring ability after his program with Umaga.

 

I can’t overstate how much Cena impressed me with his U.S. title open-challenge run a few years ago.

 

I know there's a 1979 MSG card available on the Network that has Harley Race defending the NWA championship against Dusty Rhodes, and a couple of other well-known guys you don't associate with that era of WWE. Ted Dibiase, for example, who wrestled Hulk Hogan in a mid-card match.

 

Yeah, I've seen them. The DiBiase/Hogan match is just weird to watch with the reversed roles.