Any other United Methodists here?

So you think taking on greed is something the church shouldn't do?

Kidding, I get your point.

I'm in favor of anti-discrimination laws that protect LGBT individuals. I don't believe in prohibiting gay marriage. It's not a Christian America, nor should it be. It's mostly done Christians harm, being intertwined with the American experiment.

But the UMC is, in essence, choosing to further define itself in a way that I think is ultimately compatible with the Bible.

 

Romans 1-8. Have fun.

(This doesn't answer the question specifically, but in spirit, which is the larger point.)

 

Nothing wrong with having the conversation. Probably needs to be had.

 

One more thing: The definition of "love," as Christ speaks about it, is probably not the kind of human love we tend to think about. It's more likely the kind of love that exists, as they used to say, in the triune God.

In other words, the kind of love that allows God to sacrifice his own son for the world. (Which God also loved.)

 

My kids have Scouts at a United Methodist church. Yesterday was their first meeting since all this. The main entry was wrapped in rainbow fabric, which wasn't there last week. Guess it's clear what side of the fence this particular church stands.

 

I wouldn't call it error; he doesn't prove that case. It's certainly unclear what the Hebrew word means. Whether you have that lack of clarity in Hebrew or translate it as abomination and leave that as vague in English as to what it means - either way, the implication is a puzzle. I think that his proposal is shaky, as the Bible (OT) would prohibit idolatry for those foreign nations too, and it too leaves many usages out. I have a theory (it refers to an action that takes something religiously positive and flips it on its head to be used for something prohibited), but haven't examined how widely it works. The difference is more cosmetic than substantive as the prohibition and death penalty would still remain without the pejorative.

 

Is it clever to quote Aaron Sorkin's silliest rant?

 

No more sillier than using a 2,000-year-old book that has gone through multiple interpretations and translations as a excuse to hate and discriminate.

 

That sounds like many bad things, but I wouldn't call it silly.

 

The hypocrisy of it is amazing.

Under the new Traditionalist Plan, a UMC pastor that participates in a same-sex wedding automatically gets a one year, unpaid suspension from the ministry. That's a harsher punishment than if a pastor is caught cheating on their spouse.

 

We went to a meeting Sunday afternoon at which the pastor tried to explain what is going on. He attended the conference in St. Louis and spent much of the time speaking about the mechanics of UMC rule making (it’s fairly complicated). Apparently, the Church court will rule in April whether the body of rules is in accordance with the church’s constitution. The whole or parts of the vote might be overruled.

The pastor said that ministering to people who were raised in the church and realize that they are attracted to people of their same sex would be more difficult under the traditional plan. When asked what the most immediate result of the vote would be, he said that fewer people would attend church.

 

Our Presbyterian pastor is a former Methodist minister and my wife is a lifelong Presbyterian so that's why we like that church. I was Methodist-raised (acolyte, CAF and MYF as a kid) but have no problem with Calvin or Hobbes, for that matter. Despite being in the center of redneck northeast Georgia, our church is known as the place "where 200 lesbians meet on Sundays." And yet, the third- and fourth-generation members are able to worship alongside LGBTQ members without animosity.

Until just recently, I didn't realize the two denominations were on separate branches of Protestantism, being that their services are nearly identical -- with the exception of "trespassers/debtors/sinners" in the Lord's Prayer -- and I wouldn't have guessed the United Methodists would have stumbled over this issue to this great an extent. The Methodists won't be united much longer, I'm afraid.

Jesus spent his life serving the poor, the downtrodden, the sick, the dead and among tax collectors. Despite what's written and amended in the Bible in the centuries after his death, I doubt he'd turn away anyone who wants a life in Christ if he was here today. He'd be ministering to the drug addicted, the homeless and those who have lost their way. That's the whole point.