President Trump: The NEW one and only politics thread

The Dream Among ‘Dreamers’ To Become A Doctor Now ‘At The Mercy’ Of Courts

 

Well, it's not. Not for me. And not for America in 2019. The immigration system has not shut down.

But so long as everyone's posting about how immigration is an unqualified, perpetual good necessary for growth because native-born Americans aren't having enough babies, it would seem open borders is more or less the board preference. Which, well, I don't think open borders would work, but at least it's a position consistent with the posts at hand. And if that's case, hell, why not juice the American population to 400, 450, 500 million?

Nuance, in this case, is understanding there might be problems with the way America has handled immigration, and its effect on the current population.

 

most people leave out 'illegal' because its generally considered to be included when the present discussion of immigration takes place. and the problems rationale and thoughtful people have is the sweeping generalization that they are violent criminals, rapists and welfare whores. That is the farther from the truth than it is from the underclass of native born Americans are violent criminals, rapists and welfare whores. deport the violent criminals, but rounding up the low hanging fruit of women, children, grandparents, veterans, husbands and fathers is disgraceful. That's on the Congress for not addressing the issue and Bush and Obama for their policies of benign neglect of the issue. Trump just ratchets up the storm trooper aspect. conservatives have abandoned any pretense of christian morality and have treated these illegal families in a contemptible manner.

Trump's american view will cause those smart and skilled scientists from the rest of the world to avoid america and its demented violent view of immigrants.

And the left is getting painted into an 'open borders' position, because trumpsters repeat the same lies over and over, but also because they left doesn't want to agree that immigration is an issue that needs to be dealt with by limiting immigrants and removing undesirable illegals.

 

"We're overcrowded with immigrants!", "They're taking our jobs!", "We don't have any room left!", and "They don't accept our culture!": Nativists arguments are a tradition as old as America itself.

 

Sure.

So the derpist binary of "open borders!!!!!111!!!" vs no immigration at all is unhelpful.

Some measure of immigration is desirable. Always has been. Reasonable people are arguing about what that measure is.

Unreasonable people - that part of the "current population" who voted for Donald Trump - just want to end it.

 

There's only one surefire way to limit immigration. Help the countries that are losing large numbers of emigrants to become better places to live. The number of those arguing we must limit immigration who support such a policy is very very low.

 

You say this, yet you constantly bring up the open borders argument that throws complexity out the window.

 

Nobody is saying it is an unqualified, perpetual good. You keep propping up straw men to argue with rather than have a genuine conversation.

 

I'm intrigued by this idea, and not trying to be snarky. What sort of help, specifically, are you thinking?

 

JMO - but when I get the neat words of piety and charity about immigration works, I'm asking open borders because, as I wrote, short of open borders, there's no way to have complete piety and charity. The words only exist in relief to Trump's actions, which is to say, generally speaking, they're conveniently virtuous.

 

Agricultural modernization is one thing where outside countries could provide help. Infrastructure projects as basic as water and sewage. Make it easier for the countries to export to us. Those are relatively simple steps. The complete revision of the basic structures of their societies, which is what Central America really needs, is not something an outsider could impose without direct military occupation.