President Trump: The NEW one and only politics thread

No. There’s actually no significant difference between the USA and Nazi Germany. Both were aggressive militarily towards their neighbors, Ameica’s Mexican War and Spanish War. The war against the Native Americans. The holocaust against Native Americans. And slavery And subsequent treatment of blacks would in the totality equate Americans and Nazis. In fact white Christian Americans are worse than civilian Nazis because they could have changed anytime they wanted but white Christians enjoyed the benefits of slavery and murder. America was just better at it 240 years v 12 years

 

Portland's absolutely different. But I dunno - I like the vibe there. The state of Oregon is lucky to have that city.

 

Your post is sort of confusing. There's the semantic / the AOC / the Obama vs Trump / and the Dachau comparison.

That said, Dachau opened in 1933 to warehouse Hitler's domestic political enemies. What it became over the next 12 years is well known.

By itself, detaining refugees and asylum-seekers is sufficiently miserable that every human rights organization on earth argues against it.

 

If we're zooming out history to every awful thing Americans have done - over the span of more than 200 years - I'm not sure what the moral conversation is, really. It might as well be as big as all of human history, or as small as that single bad thought any person may have.

Under those circumstances, yes, of course, all men and women fall short of the standard of a perfect God, and we should all repent. Often.

 

And Catherine the Great refused King George III's request for help against the colonists.

Winston Churchill had lots and lots of help against the Nazis.

 

And?????

 

It was an issue, largely because that was when refugee families first started to send unaccompanied minors. It wasn't the mainstay of his election platform. When Obama started his re-election bid, he didn't do so by announcing that he was going to deport two million people. Under Obama, ICE targeted felons who were immigration violators, not families.

 

If they were detained in 3-star hotels - hell, two-star motels - it wouldn't be miserable.

It's the conditions of the detainment, and the number of people who have to be detained. It's logistics. It's morality, too - it is, it most certainly is - but it's also building systems that work, for goodness sakes. This isn't 27 wandering souls. It's a ton of people. It's a crisis - both humanitarian and logistically.

I'll offer an example that's sort of related: Child abuse in a given American state. Now, some people will tell you (and I agree) that the more often you remove more kids from their homes - and place them in foster care - the worse that is, because there's a finite number of good foster parents, and those foster parents take a finite number of kids, and, after that point, it gets increasingly hit or miss, to the point where some of the foster parents might be several degrees worse than some of the birth parents, especially in states where foster parent programs are run though private subcontractors who take on state contracts and, in the process, set up the (typically poor) reimbursement rates. You have highly questionable removals - right on the line stuff that may offend your sensibilities, but not everyone's - to plunge kids into a foster roulette wheel. It can be bad stuff....

...and it can depend on the mindset of the case worker and the judge. So even if experts can identify all these issues with iffy removals - we're not talking heinous abuse cases, but drug violations and some other things - if a caseworker and a judge is in a particularly crusading mood...more removals.

So the question becomes, on some level, how do you begin to screen better on the front end for caseworkers who aren't out to remove every kid within 15 feet of marijuana smoke. Or how pay foster parents the right amount of money - how does the state fund it, in other ways - so that more good foster parents are willing? Then, how do we change and improve baseline systems for birth parent support? What does "adequate skills" look like? How might a white, upper-class, progressive parents' perspective differ from what's essential to this refugee family that has different cultural standards? Oh, and how do we take some of that power out of a judge's hands when it becomes obvious they're doing a poor job either way?

It's logistics and it's morality. Obama was a moral man. His team didn't figure out logistics, either.

 

Conditions here are not as horrible as they were in the Nazi camps.

If that is the standard by which we are to judge that conditions in those camps are acceptable, I'm very disappointed in the American people.

 

Obama-era deportations were far higher than Trump.

Trump isn't matching Obama deportation numbers

Progressives generally have no earthly idea what happened in immigration under Obama because they didn't much care. Their team was in the White House.

That doesn't mean "well, you can't care now." Not at all. But if the US was deporting an average of 400,000 folks per year between 2009-2012...something was happening there. Trump's not even close to those numbers, no matter what he says.

Are you saying the 400,000 deportations per year were justified under Obama?

 

Then I assume you were disappointed in 2014. Were you?

 

I’m disappointed FoxNews didn’t cover the concentration camp like conditions of children’s detention centers in 2014. If they did exist, FoxNews would have covered it.