Pre-Super Tuesday Presidential poll

It would also make for price competition. I don't know that the colleges would like to admit they were trying to undercut State U, but competing on price works pretty much across the board as long as the product is decent.

Might mean "Big Sale on Summer Credit Hours! 20% off!"

 

How about going back to allowing anyone to discharge their educational loans in bankruptcy, as many boomers were able to do.

That's right - they got theirs as per usual then slammed the door shut on every other person thereafter.

The current system is a great business to keep people on the hook forever, as a fucking serf.

 

I get that, I really do. I totally understand how any and all of that rubs you the wrong way. In my opinion, it all pales in comparison to what the President has actually done to our country.

To me, her dig at Bloomberg certainly is no worse than the innumerable insults 45 has hurled at so many of his opponents and allies (looking at you, Lindsey Graham, Ted Cruz, etc). It's not a great look for her, I agree, but it doesn't register much with me (particularly since it appears to be true).

My wife and I were talking about the college loan forgiveness idea the other night and we both agreed that, while there could be some economic benefits to it, it strikes us as, at the very least, a bad lesson to our youth. We don't necessarily agree with it.

However, I don't personally harbor the resentment you and some others on the board share over the idea of forgiving student debt. What the fuck do I care? I paid my debt. If someone else doesn't have to pay theirs, it doesn't hurt me in any way.

My preference is that we enact legislation that ultimately serves the country best. If our legislature, with solid advice from people way fucking smarter than I am, determines that forgiving student debt will help spur the economy, I'm OK with giving it a shot. If it fails, it hangs around the necks of the politicians who voted for it. That's fine. That's what we do. We try things and hope they work out. And when they don't, the politicians get voted the fuck out.

I see Warren, at her absolute worst, as a politician who may enact some policies that don't work, could hurt the economy and she'd get voted out toot suite. At her best, she could do a lot of damned good because she's whip smart, she's a bit of a bulldog and she seems to understand that fixing income inequality doesn't require a goddamn revolution, it requires recalibration.

The current occupant of the Oval Office, on the other hand, I think is dealing real damage to our Democracy and, frankly, our planet. He is gutting key sectors of our government. He is rolling back environmental standards that will have dire consequences not just to wildlife, but to all of us, particularly as it relates to drinking water. He is attacking the very idea of truth and objectivity and he is absolutely destroying the free press.

All of these attacks on our society, our way of life, our world, I think represent a far more existential threat than anything Warren may or (most likely) may not accomplish as it pertains to letting students get a relatively free education.

 

It doesn’t harm you that people don’t have to pay their debts? JFC. Why not just give debt forgiveness to real estate developers. Doesn’t harm you. Except it devalues everything. Ya know what? I’ll be an adult who takes on a shitload of credit card debt to keep up with the Jones’s? Why don’t you forgive all that?

 

We bailed out the auto companies. We bailed out the banks and real estate industries. We bailed out the farmers.

If we bail out the students with loans, the people who have them will have their discretionary spending increased by whatever their former loan payment was. Voila! Economic stimulus!

 

Then don’t go to college and take on debt. The world needs ditch diggers too

 

To be clear, I'm not advocating for forgiving student debt, but I do want to ask why you find the very idea of it insulting. You paid your money, you got your education. Things may change and some students may get their debt forgiven. How does that affect you? You got your education and all that came with it. You are where you (hopefully) wanted to be.

The cost you paid to go to JC and undergrad in the '80s was obviously much easier to handle than what students of the past two decades have faced, particularly as post-grad wages have stagnated.

If Warren ran for President when you were attending junior college, do you think her message would have resonated with you more? Or would you have been "insulted" by the idea of not having to pay for college?

I don't direct the following comment at you, Poin, but this post has simply made me reflect upon it.

I don't understand the rather commonplace attitude that a policy helping someone else who is not me is unpalatable — because I, specifically, am in a position where I no longer need such help — is absolutely abhorrent. If any of us, who needed help when were just starting out, saw a political candidate offering us that help, we would have absolutely been right to support that candidate. And, the idea that many of us who today no longer need that help, can't see our way to voting for someone who would give it to people who are so much like we were, is really sad to me.

 

No, it does not harm me in a single way, shape or form if every single student debt is forgiven today. In fact, it might help me if it spurs the economy. That's unknown, obviously, but no, it will absolutely not harm me if all student loan is forgiven. I am willing to listen to any way it may harm you.

I mean, you know real estate developers get their debt forgiven every day in bankruptcy, right? And adults with bad spending habits get their credit card debt forgiven in bankruptcy all the time as well. Corporations who spend recklessly, even, get their debt forgiven all the time. Forgiving the debt of (hopefully) well-educated students doesn't seem so bad in comparison.

The idea with forgiving student loans (which, again, I am not advocating for, but I am not personally insulted by) is that that money will instead flow into the economy. Personally, I'd tie any idea of debt forgiveness to some sort "sweat equity." You want $100K in student loans forgiven? That's 1,000 hours of community service. Something along those lines. But those are details that can get sorted out when we talk about actual policy.

I understand this gets your blood boiling. You paid for your education. You don't want anybody else to get theirs for less than you did. Fine. I get that. I really do. You're not wrong for feeling that way and you're most certainly not alone.

But let's be open to looking at this from a pragmatic point of view. Are we, as a nation, better off with post-grad students who are mired in debt far greater than you would have imagined when you were chasing skirts and doing beer bongs? Or are we better off with them putting that money back into the economy?

I don't know the answer. I'm willing to explore all possibilities. Are you? Or are you just pissed that someone got a 4K TV at Best Buy for 50% percent off the week after you bought yours at full price?

 

As evidenced by CD Boogie's outrage, pragmatism no longer exists.

Our elections run on emotion now. Feelings overrule logic.

Boogie and others may not be part of the boomer generation, but it's the same mindset. "I don't care how the world has changed and that millions of college grads were sold a scam. I got mine. Fuck you, save yourself."

What a country. What a world.

 

FYI, forgiving someone else's college loans makes zero impact on your life, other than the fact you don't like it.

Actually, I take that back. It may impact your life.

You could get a raise, because more people have more money to spend on more things, which improves the economy. Maybe they'll even spend it on newspaper subscriptions.

But even if none of that happens, the worst that happens to you is nothing. Bunch of other people have a bit more spending money, but that doesn't impact you.

Unless, of course, you're worried about feeling a bit poorer. In which case, now you'll know what millions of college grads feel.

 

I always figured when college debt makes it harder for people to buy homes - those who had been banking on selling their home to cover their retirements would suddenly understand why they aren't getting the price they expected.