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Muh Muh Muh My Corona (virus)

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Twirling Time, Jan 21, 2020.

  1. tapintoamerica

    tapintoamerica Well-Known Member

    And why is pointing out failures somehow worse than
    a) ignoring it or
    b) throwing out misleading, inaccurate garbage that says we're doing great or this thing isn't that big a deal?

    At least this way, the media is doing its job of trying to make the country care about stopping it.
     
    Spartan Squad likes this.
  2. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    The pluses of not messing with equities right now:

    If you are invested in equities, valuations are broadly disconnected from anything fundamental. In a market not being manipulated by central banks, earnings, which are a function of the broader economy, would drive stock prices. Earnings were already declining for several years prior to the pandemic, but stock prices were rising, because the Fed (and ECB and BOJ) were relentlessly expanding the money supply and buying debt with it. That has created a lot of leverage that has blown bubbles in risky things. Earnings are falling off a cliff, stock prices have been moving higher, which means that the multiple of price to earnings has been expanding. That multiple expansion has taken what was already an insanely valued stock market and turned it into a complete farce. It is going to come to an end -- with a spectacular crash. So the reason to park yourself in cash would be to just not mess around with it.

    The cons of trying to market time:

    The Fed might be able to blow the bubble even bigger than this -- and if you are going to get all aggravated sitting on the sideline and feel like you are missing out (FOMO -- fear of missing out, which is what is driving the market -- it may be a miserable time for you that can go on way longer than seems possible). This bubble didn't just pop up post pandemic. The Fed caused the financial crisis in 2007/08 by making money too cheap for too long and that created a lot of debt. We neeeded a deleveraging -- credit defaults and allowing the price of money to be set by a market rather than some price czars -- but we never got it. They answered a self-created debt crisis, by stepping in to destroy price discovery in the debt markets even more (by creating money out of thin air and using it to buy up more debt, which in turn keeps yields artificially low), in order to allow overly indebted entities to hold off the reckoning (their defaults) with. ... MORE debt. And that created an even bigger debt mess. The longer it goes on -- and this is playing out over years, the worse they are making the future. They have robbed us of decades of growth at this point.

    Now, they are trapped. Interest rates can never normalize now, because if a market and price discovery were at work, the amount of debt they have enabled is a huge problem now -- just servicing it if rates weren't being manipulated to make money cheaper than free, would create massive defaults and the economic shitstorm that is going to come with that -- there are trillions of dollars of defaults that are going to have to happen. It is going to rob us of years upon years of the future -- they robbed that future to live a fantasy for years.

    So basically, market participants are now betting that the Fed is all in -- it's not really much of a bet, the Fed's behavior has made it clear that it knows it is trapped and they are going to go all in at this point. They will monetize as much debt as necessary to prop up the mess they have made, and that added debt is serving no productive economic purpose. They have basically been reduced to flooding the casino they created with chips. And that is why speculators are going to ride it until the end, hoping they can get out before the crash -- whenever it happens. And who knows how high risk assets can go -- how big a farce can they create?

    The other major con about trying to time the market is that if you are talking about a 401(K), what has been your plan all along? If the idea is that you had a fairly long time horizon and you were going to dollar cost average in (buying little bits every month), you should barely be looking at that money if you are say, 10 years or more away from retirement. Stay the course, and don't try to time the market. Because that is usually a recipe for failure. So for most people -- who are investors, not traders -- it might make most sense to just ride it out (as long as your time horizon is long enough). Individual investors tend to sell at the wrong time and buy at the worst time, so for most people, they really shouldn't look at their 401(K) except once a quarter or so, and that should only be to rebalance to get your mix of assets in line with the asset allocation mix you set for yourself.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
    Inky_Wretch, SFIND and TigerVols like this.
  3. Alma

    Alma Well-Known Member

    No, not at all. But the "failure" in California is different than Florida or Texas. Way different. Why? California officials were the opposite of cavalier.
     
  4. Spartan Squad

    Spartan Squad Well-Known Member

    I'm in the camp that while the 24-hour media is going to 24-hour media this thing and that is a piece of the problem, the reason why this is blowing up here is not because we're trying to win some "most cases in the world" prize. We don't deserve to be 20 percent of the world's death total. We don't deserve our cases continuing to go up while the rest of the comparable world's cases are going down. It's not DOOOM!!!ism to say we bungled the fuck out of this. Our president was completely over his head in this. We also had people with guns show up proclaiming the economy was more important than people's lives. We have people losing their shit at stores trying to enforce the simple measure of wearing a mask. We have people all over social media proclaiming we're all going to die if we wear the same things that keep doctors safe. We have people proclaiming this is not a big deal and piling into bars. We don't deserve any of this but we certainly have dipshits who are making the rest of the world wonder what the fuck is going on here.

    Is this as bad as it's ever been? Oh hell no and the media has some blame in that. Should this have been as bad as it is? Oh hell no to that too. And it isn't libs who want to bring down the president either.
     
    HanSenSE, SFIND and tapintoamerica like this.
  5. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    There's 24-hour media everywhere. Social media, too.

    In fact there's a lot more of it in better wired countries like South Korea. Japan. etc.

    Which is one of the reasons they handled C19 better, sooner.
     
    2muchcoffeeman and SFIND like this.
  6. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    meanwhile, back in America:


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
     
  7. Alma

    Alma Well-Known Member

    The "comparable" world?

    To the extent the US is 20% means one believing China isn't lying its ass off. No one knows. If you think China performed 90,000,000 tests and didn't even get positive tests from 1/1000th of those, I got a bridge to sell ya.

    But China can lie, and commit open genocide and smother democracy and get away with it because it's a fascist dictatorship that actively punishes any of its critics.

    The US is set "eat our own." And we are. Perhaps with good reason. But I'm not sure a democracy, in world history, has ever had more contempt for itself.
     
  8. tapintoamerica

    tapintoamerica Well-Known Member

    Most states — including nearly all Trumpist states — are in trouble. This is not an isolated issue.
     
  9. Spartan Squad

    Spartan Squad Well-Known Member

    Yes, comparable world. Countries with similar governments and economies. I'm not comparing us to China, but I'm sure comparing us to Germany or Japan. Countries that by all rights we should be doing as well (on a per capita basis) as but we are not. So keep your bridge in Brooklyn, I ain't buyin.
     
  10. Spartan Squad

    Spartan Squad Well-Known Member

    And I meant to say "20 percent of known Covid related deaths." My bad. I mean if Florida can fudge it's numbers in an open society, I'm sure China and Russia are getting away with the same.
     
    SFIND likes this.
  11. Alma

    Alma Well-Known Member

    Yes but California does not resemble these states in action. CA was cautious. Why did it happen there too? Because Trump? Cmon.
     
  12. Spartan Squad

    Spartan Squad Well-Known Member

    Have you been to Orange County? Bakersfield? The Sacramento suburbs?

    Actually, we have the problem of too many anti-vaxers mixed with just enough muh freedoms to be a problem.
     
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