NFL Week 15 thread -- Starry nights at Lambeau

Most people weren't talking about Mahomes in those terms when he was coming out of college. He was nowhere near as highly-regarded as Lawrence. The same is true of Herbert, Darnold, and Mayfield.

Now you could say that Mahomes is an example that works against putting too much stock in a guy like Lawrence because Mahomes wasn't one of those guys taken No. 1 overall and he's the best in the game right now, but that isn't he argument DanOregon was making.

 

I'm just fascinated that it held up for 17 years. Technically it's not a record as Baker is listed fifth all-time in TD passes for the Browns, but the team did start over in 1999 so the old records aren't really part of the new team.

 

Tough to define consistency, though. he's been very good this season. I don't care how good your running game is. You don't put up 30 a game without a pretty good quarterback. I'll wait to anoint him, but his revival this year has been a pleasant surprise on the North Coast.

 

I was thinking of a few stinkers this year, such as the losses to Pittsburgh and Las Vegas. The former was against a defense that was playing extremely well at the time, but the latter seems odd compared to the rest of his season.

 

The loss to the Steelers is a real outlier right now. The Raiders game was played in a hurricane. There aren't many QBs in history, if any, who would have done well that day. Nobody could remember a windier game day in Cleveland. Like I said, not anointing him, but he's the best they've had since Kosar (faint praise, I realize, but at least it's something).

 

I don't know if Mayfield is Top 10 or more Top 15, but I think he's clearly in that half of the league's QBs, while being short of the Mahomes, Rodgers tier. Then again, almost everyone is. He's also young enough to get better. From what I've seen this year, he's probably at least good enough to win a Super Bowl, if the team around him is good. He's also got one more year (2021) before he needs to be extended - at this point, maybe the value proposition is a bit dicier, but given how instable the Browns has been for basically all of their revival, I think they'll happily extend him even if he's "only" an average QB.

 

Wasn't sure we were talking only about those called "once in a generation" while still in college. Just those who have been regarded as such at any point.

You're correct in that Mahomes was not thought of that way while in college. Many believed he was something of a "system" quarterback.

 

Ah. I thought the Houston game was bad weather. I didn't realize the loss to the Raiders was as well.

Also, Kosar didn't play for this franchise. The franchise he played for is in Baltimore now.

 

They had a three-game stretch (Raiders, Texans, Eagles) all played in crappy weather. Never seen anything like it here. The media love to portray the AFC North like all the games after Halloween are played on frozen swamps, but in a normal year there's either one game like that or none. Three in a row was nuts. ... And yes, I get your thing about the franchise, and you're not wrong. But the Browns, Cleveland, however you want to put it, have not have a good quarterback for 30 years.

 

The league's attempt to act as if the Browns never left Cleveland has always bothered me.

Mayfield is the best quarterback the Browns have had since they got the expansion team. Sadly for them, as you said, that is a low bar.

 

At the same time, should the Ravens really count Otto Graham, Jim Brown and Paul Warfield among their all-time greats? And would they want to?