NFL Week 15 thread -- Starry nights at Lambeau

Yeah, it's bad. I've always liked the Broncos, even back in the old AFL days.

 

I actually think there are three teams: The Cleveland Browns, 1946-95, The Cleveland Browns, 1999-, and the Baltimore Ravens. Sorry, but Jim Brown is not the career rushing leader for the Baltimore Ravens. He just isn't. (That would be Jamal Lewis, and as an aside, Lamar Jackson amazingly is already fourth). Nor is Otto Graham their all-time passing leader. That's just silliness. You can say that the current Browns aren't the same as the old ones, and I'm fine with that, and it's nearly as silly to say that Nick Chubb is chasing Jim Brown's records, even though he is, at least a little (Chubb already is the 1999-present career leader). But the statue of Jim Brown (which arguably should not be there, given his nefarious past) is in front of the correct stadium.

The only thing really linking the Baltimore team to Cleveland by the time of the expansion Browns was Matt Stover, who wound up playing a decade or so for the Ravens. Unless I missed someone, there were two other players, who were gone a year later, who played for the Browns in 1995 and were still with the Ravens by '99.

Most people covering the team here make the distinction between the two. Stuff is referred to as "The first time since 1999 ..." far more than "The first time since 1988 ..." or whatever. If Mayfield throws 31 touchdown passes this year, it will give him a Cleveland Browns record, passing Brian Sipe's 1980 total. He needs 30 to break Derek Anderson's "franchise" record. There's nothing wrong with recognizing both franchises, even if they aren't exactly the same, but I also don't see any big deal with letting them be one team. Many franchises have moved; only one team's fan base gave enough of a shit to make this a thing.

 

Never has anyone worn a more appropriate uniform.

 

I like your approach. Actually, I like it better than the one I have been pushing, but the league would have never gone for a plan that makes it so the Browns from 1946-95 no longer exist.

Also, there is the example of the Titans. The situations really aren't that different.

Stover wasn't the only connection from the '95 Browns to the Ravens by the time the new Browns were born. Ozzie Newsom was director of pro personnel for Cleveland in '95, then became the Ravens GM when they fired Bill Belichick as coach and GM that offseason.

 

Speaking of old Browns records, as an aside, Ernie Accorsi had a funny story about the Browns during the ‘87 strike. After a couple of weeks of replacement games, Gary Danielson and Brian Brennan approach Accorsi with the idea that since the strike was close to ending, that they cross the picket line early enough to play in the third replacement game with the idea that they could steal a win against the replacement players. They said their teammates were on board with the idea, so Accorsi agrees.

In the game, Danielson and Brennan dominate the replacements, and by the fourth quarter, Brennan is near the Browns’ all-time record for receiving yards (I think Dante Lavelli had it). Accorsi realizes Brennan is near the record, and he’s flipping out because he doesn’t want a record held by a Browns legend be broke in a strike game. So he calls down to the sidelines to have Brennan taken out of the game.

Then Brennan goes behind the bench and shakes his fist at Accorsi in the luxury box, as Brennan is mad that he couldn’t break the record.

 

I meant on the roster. Many front-office people made the move. I question whether some of them have souls.

 

Oscar Robertson would be the best player in the history of virtually every team. Off the top of my head I would say Cleveland, Miami (LeBron) and Los Angeles (Jabbar, Magic, LeBron and arguably West), Milwaukee (Jabbar), Boston (Bird and Russell) , Philadelphia and San Francisco (Chamberlain and Chicago (Jordan) would be the only franchises with better players.

 

Do you think Locke is a lost cause?

 

Really? Look in the Tennessee Titans' media guide and you'll see Earl Campbell and Warren Moon all over the records section. Not to mention George Blanda, Elvin Bethea, Ken Burrough, Charley Hennigan, Billy "White Shoes" Johnson, et al. Is that silliness? If not, how is that different?

 

NFL rosters can turn over quite a bit in four years, especially when the coach/GM is fired.

Newsome got the opportunity to be a general manager, and he ended up being one of the best in the game for a long time.

 

The ownership group never changed.

 

The ownership group didn't change when Art Modell moved his franchise from Cleveland to Baltimore. He continued as the owner until 2003.