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Whatever Happened to Shame?

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by DanOregon, Jan 7, 2021.

  1. DanOregon

    DanOregon Well-Known Member

    see Rousseau, The Social Contract.
     
  2. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    A bully's MO is to humiliate you before you can humiliate him.

    There's a deep pathology of shaming and deflecting shame at work there.
     
    OscarMadison likes this.
  3. Alma

    Alma Well-Known Member

    I’d start with the idea that I’m not sure I want people to feel shame very often. Humility? Yes. Even modesty. Shame? I’m not sure how helpful an emotion that is.

    But I guess when I think about the lack of it, I think, for example, of the naked woman in Portland who exposed herself to police during the riots. She was a sex worker and dubbed “Naked Athena.”

    Is that an example? To some it could be. To others, she’s celebrated for making a political statement.

    When the idea of “personal truth” - that is, whatever I say is true to me is true, and you get your own truth but I get mine - has the traction it does, just about everything goes.

    I dunno. There’s blame to go around as to why it’s happened. Personal responsibility was way down before Donald Trump.
     
  4. BTExpress

    BTExpress Well-Known Member

    Small sample size, but one of my Vol Deplorables posted yesterday, "I'm ashamed to have voted for this asshole."

    So there's one.
     
  5. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    I guess I'm not sure that 'shame' is any healthier when applied to nakedness, rather than a behavior.

    I certainly don't want children to feel 'ashamed' of their bodies.

    But I might want them to feel 'ashamed' of lying.
     
    OscarMadison likes this.
  6. Inky_Wretch

    Inky_Wretch Well-Known Member

    Well, when you can parlay a sex tape into a billion dollar business it's tough for people to see the use in shaming people.

    Oh, this wasn't caused by the Kim and Kanye thread?
     
  7. 2muchcoffeeman

    2muchcoffeeman Well-Known Member

    The only reason he fears shame is because he fears getting caught.
     
    OscarMadison likes this.
  8. DanOregon

    DanOregon Well-Known Member

    I think shame is part of the "rehabilitation process" for people whe commit bad behavior. I don't "wish" it on anyone, but I do think it is a "step" that helps society at large. Without it, we have people trying to "outdo" the latest example of bad behavior. And that's not good for society.
     
    OscarMadison likes this.
  9. Alma

    Alma Well-Known Member

    What's "bad" behavior? Who decides? What should we be ashamed of?

    We, as a nation, used to agree more about what that was and wasn't. Before the Internet. Before social media. Now, you can find your "people" online who believe just about anything you'd want to believe, and they'll tell you...you're right. There aren't that many standards left when everyone gets to have their own personal truth.
     
  10. goalmouth

    goalmouth Well-Known Member

    No Shame:

    When the NBA forces racist Donald Sterling to sell but gives a pass to Animal House owners James Dolan and Mark Cuban.
     
  11. OscarMadison

    OscarMadison Well-Known Member

    So you've met my family.

    Seriously, you're right. Shame has been weaponized as a way to turn back discernment. To acknowledge it in oneself is to admit to weakness. We can't have that.


    I understand being scandalized by nudity.

    At the same time, exposure to naked bodies is inevitable in some fields of inquiry.

    The cadavers I looked at in A&P were not clothed nor were many of the bodies I saw during an intra-university exchange at a forensic anth lab.

    I was even accused of shaming the first studio model I encountered in art school. A big blond guy with a dork-knob threw off his robe and started posing at the front of the classroom.*
    He made eye contact with me and said, "Hiyee! I'm Sparrow. Are you the new person** from Nashville?" I sighed and spent the rest of the class trying to approximate Sparrow's occupation of positive space on newsprint. I also did not try to explain Sparrow was the first naked man I'd ever seen and talking to him would not have helped.

    tl : DR Sometimes shame can be a matter of personal mores.



    *Yes, I was tempted to write it was PHYS 101.
    ** He was too woke to assign me a gender or even a vague indication of species. Bless his heart.
     
  12. Jerry-atric

    Jerry-atric Well-Known Member

    This is a hoot!
     
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