2020-21 College Basketball thread

Terps, 3 top 20 wins, in conference on the road, which accounts for all conference wins. Most road wins against ranked teams in school history. Road wins don’t mean the same thing this year as there are no crowds. But you are literally taking your health in your hands on every trip.

 

Until I got to North Carolina to experience it in person, I could only guess what the Carolina-Duke-State relationship was like, and it's unique in a lot of ways. A lot of colleges have the "big brother/little brother" syndrome, but the Wuffies have TWO big brothers just on the other side of RTP, and it creates a huge inferiority complex for the Red and White.

I was there for Les and Herb over that 11-year span, and it's truly a weird disconnect between expectations and reality for N.C. State alums. You've got in essence three generations of aging Wuffies who remember when the program reached the pinnacle with Everett Case, Norm Sloan and Jim Valvano, and they want to be Carolina and Duke but without the time it took for Dean Smith and Shizzysheffski to build those programs to that level.

They're Veruca Salt without the million dollar inheritance. They want be to good NOW. But Coach K can recruit the entire nation and Roy Williams pretty much has the ear of every high school coach in the state. So anyone trying to construct the foundation in Raleigh has to somehow temper these incredible expectations. And you can't build anything if the boosters keep knocking it down.

But that's not all. Wuffies want their coach to be entertaining, too, like Sloan and Jimmy V used to. So quiet, smart guys like Robinson and Sendek go completely against the "image" of what State fans think will win games, even if they put competitive teams on the floor.

So as N.C. State coach, you're constantly fighting against two recruiting titans in your backyard while being constantly reminded that "we used to get guys like David Thompson and Sidney Lowe." Well, a lot has changed in 40 years, 1983 was a miracle that doesn't happen but once in a lifetime, and flipping coaches like burgers at Char-Grill ain't the answer.

And I loved LOVED Reynolds. What an awesome building. Nothing like writing on deadline from the ROTC classroom next to the popcorn machine.

(The only thing more amusing is how East Carolina has a massive inferiority complex about N.C. State.)

 

Jesus, Herb Sendek hasn’t felt this amount of love ever.

Can anyone tell me what he’s doing today?

Ans there’s only so many basketball players in an area of the country. Virginia and Virginia Tech are also pulling players.

If NC State is to really challenge, they pick a style (press, three ball, half court) and recruit players that thrive in that style. Don’t get a bunch of three star and the odd four star and once they all show up, you can’t fit them all into the same system.

 

Head coach at Santa Clara, which is really known for Steve Nash and being in the West Coast Conference along with Gonzaga and Saint Mary's.

----

maumann ... wow. Outstanding post. Hit EVERY nuance.

A couple of excerpts worth more discussion:

But that's not all. Wuffies want their coach to be entertaining, too, like Sloan and Jimmy V used to. So quiet, smart guys like Robinson and Sendek go completely against the "image" of what State fans think will win games, even if they put competitive teams on the floor.

This is stupid on so many levels, yet encapsulates what too many of the fans crave. Worked a Wolfpack Club Caravan stop in my hometown one year (the SE made me do it ... I didn't want to do it, believe it or not).

Kay Yow was, as always, positive and enthusiastic without coming across as the ridiculously overzealous cheerleader. Could not have been nicer, willing to answer my questions and interact with those at the function. She is still missed to this day (though Wes Moore is really doing great things with the program).

Herb Sendek was unfailingly nice. I was taken onto the bus where the coaches were waiting to go into the clubhouse. I saw that he was eating, and I said we could wait (I was a media gathering of one ... not exactly a bunch of us). Herb saw that it was just me, and said that we could proceed with questions and such. Answered questions, did so without trying to twist anything, was just outright decent. Not something we see often enough.

Chuck Amato was vintage Chuck. Preening at times, antagonistic with me, enthusiastic but didn't have the personable, decent, aw-shucks sort of vibe that helped Bobby Bowden along during his tenure in Tallahassee. But he was loud and brash and the fan base took to it.

Point is - as maumann has nailed - class and decency isn't valued as much as in-your-face, see?-we'll-show-you and an over-the-top vibe. Amato was revered and Sendek was reviled. I'll NEVER understand it.

So as N.C. State coach, you're constantly fighting against two recruiting titans in your backyard while being constantly reminded that "we used to get guys like David Thompson and Sidney Lowe." Well, a lot has changed in 40 years, 1983 was a miracle that doesn't happen but once in a lifetime, and flipping coaches like burgers at Char-Grill ain't the answer.

The sad part? As much as fans griped and griped and griped about Sendek's offense - based on Princeton principles and emphasized that everyone be strong passers, share the ball and space out - when it worked well, it was almost unstoppable. Even when it worked acceptably - which was usually the case - it was effective enough.

Sendek was able to get some quality players. None of them were David Thompson, but he's once in a lifetime, even in the Triangle.

Two things that seem to have been forgotten by a fan base that really needs to cure its cranial-rectal fusion:

1) NCSU got the the NCAA Tournament in each of Sendek's final five seasons. Remember when reaching the tournament was a given, fans? Salad days ...
2) Every Sendek recruit who stayed at least four years earned his degree. Now, I know some trailer-park fans don't care about that. But I'm an alum and I do. Also ... remember the Chris Washburns and Charles Shacklefords? Yeah. Remember the academic mess of 30 years ago? Remember the academic mess at Chapel Hill?

----

Two things to know about East Carolina:

1) Thank goodness it produced Kay Yow. Beyond that ... well ...
2) NCSU has a horrendous inferiority complex. As long as East Carolina is around, NCSU will never have any worse than the second-worst inferiority complex.

If you really want to tweak the folks in purple, wear your red (sometimes black) gear. It's one of those cases where you're seen as trolling them even though you're doing nothing more than representing your school and allegiances. They are that touchy.

 

Herb Sendek is a great coach for Santa Clara. Santa Clara is a great place for Herb Sendek.

He was average at ASU and average at Santa Clara.

 

I read about coaches who want to use a pressure defense so they can score lots of transition baskets.

Has anyone ever done a study of what percentage of the team can get out on the fast break. If you assume the opponent hits 40 percent of their shots and that a team probably will not be able to run a fast break after free throws or the ball is thrown in on an in-bounds play. How many opportunities are there?

 

He didn't get enough done at Tempe. I suspect they wanted to brag about poaching an ACC coach. Problem is, then you have to win to keep making that narrative work.

Never saw a nosedive at Arizona State, but there wasn't a turn-the-corner season. And he was given plenty of time.

 

God, the analytics here...

Let’s say a team scores 1.1 points per possession (I have no idea what the number is) on a non-defensive turnover possession, but on the seven forced defensive turnovers they get 1.8 points per possession, that’s an added 4.9 points and let’s say the 1.1 ppp the opponent had is gone. So those seven back court turnovers turned into a 12.6 points.

Plus, there are the unmeasurable things press does. It makes the other team use more of their bench. It takes shots away from the other teams best player. It was gets your players into foul trouble. It does not work well against good backcourts.

 

It’s tough to do anything in college basketball in front of empty seats. Tough to bring a recruit to a half-filled arena.

 

Almost want to make a joke about people not wanting to go inside there during that time of year, but also recall that Lute Olson didn't have that problem in Tucson. And he inherited perhaps a bigger mess when he got there from Iowa than Herb Sendek did in Tempe when he touched down from Raleigh.

 

Any chance of NC State renovating and moving back to Reynolds? I’m sure it doesn’t offer the amenities that the Hurricanes building does but I’m sure it makes up for that in atmosphere.

 

Not now. The athletic department did a really nice renovation of Reynolds (peeling off endless layers of nicotine from the ceiling ... not kidding, people smoked in that place like human chimneys for decades), putting a Hall of Fame wing into one side of the building and making better use of space in general.

The drawback in terms of men's basketball and fans? Now Reynolds seats around 5,600. They can't fill up the ESA, but even they can get 5,600 to show up for a non-conference game or the non-Triangle ACC games.

IMO, they should stay there during the pandemic because it's just not as cavernous as the ESA, it's easier for NCSU and its programs and the only difference for the road team is a few miles east into the city and with no crowds, it's easy to park a bus in lots not being used by fans and students who aren't on campus. The only reason to even consider the ESA during the rest of this season is that the benches can space out a little better (basically, use the space inside the hockey boards and wrap the benches around the corners the way everyone else is).