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The Economy

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by TigerVols, May 14, 2020.

  1. BTExpress

    BTExpress Well-Known Member

    I thought the whole point of the Uber business model is that it's not burdened by "expenses" (drivers supply the vehicles, maintenance, etc.).

    How the hell does it lose that much?
     
  2. TrooperBari

    TrooperBari Well-Known Member

    A breakdown from 2019 suggests a lot of money is going into R&D, though Uber selling its autonomous vehicle unit in December as well as its flying taxi service suggests it might not be getting good value for money there. I suppose losing $6.8 billion is "good" news on the heels of losing $8.5 billion in a pandemic-less 2019, but that's akin to claiming victory over the military-industrial complex by reducing the rate at which US defense spending is increasing.

    No worries, though. I'm sure the galaxy brains back at the Jam Pad have a brilliant solution -- just as soon as they find someone from whom to steal it.
    271 - Uber
     
  3. Inky_Wretch

    Inky_Wretch Well-Known Member

  4. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    People will look back on this stuff later and shake their heads. Drizly is unprofitable in 8 or 9 years of existence. ... even with 2020 being the year of booze orders b/c of the pandemic, which was a boon to its business.

    And someone just paid $1.1 billion for it.

    Valuation doesn't matter when money is cheap and plentiful thanks to the Fed creating endless amounts of credit that has no lending standard attached to it because the market pricing mechanism has been destroyed by them. Billions get played with like they are millions. Why not? You can just keep borrowing or get funding from others who are using borrowed money, and never have to actually have a business that is viable.

    The price tag / fallout for this lunacy when there is a debt implosion is going to cripple the world.
     
    maumann likes this.
  5. DanOregon

    DanOregon Well-Known Member

    A cousin of mine just got laid off from Postmates after the Uber acquistion. Formerly at Yelp (which is also bailing out of some downtown SF real estate). The biggest thing asset these companies have is the people who VCs believe in. Yelp is another company that has taken it in the shorts during the pandemic, thankfully my cousin's wife was on maternity leave during much of last year and still has a job there. But dang - if apps aren't the Golden Goose - what is?
     
    maumann likes this.
  6. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Uber itself will have lost almost $7 billion for 2020. It's not funding those acquisitions with profits. It's absurd.
     
    maumann likes this.
  7. wicked

    wicked Well-Known Member

    Will it? As you said the Fed keeps printing money. This has been going on for 13 years now. No one has shown any appetite to going back to the old way of doing things.
     
    maumann likes this.
  8. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Yes, it will. This is a graph of M1 money supply.

    fredgraph.png

    That hockey stick since the pandemic is beyond reckless. The higher that graph goes, the worse the debt crisis. And we are in unchartered territory historically. The financial crises in 2000, 2008 were caused by much smaller amounts of debt monetization (which is what this graph shows). What do you think is coming on the back of the insanity we are now seeing?

    To put that graph into words: All aspects of our society -- our governments at the Federal and state levels, corporations, individuals, etc. -- are borrowing trillions upon trillions of dollars. The money doesn't find its way into the most economically productive or efficient things because there doesn't seem to be any consequences for spending it poorly as long as the Fed is able to distort the debt market. So it is spent in a piss poor way in terms of our aggregate good. As that graph goes higher, every dollar of debt is providing less economic benefit -- fewer jobs, less standard of living increase, etc. But the full cost of that debt is still going to be due. So we have borrowed decades from the future, getting a fraction of the value of what we have borrowed. It's beyond stupid.

    While it is happening, that benefits anyone who has wealth already -- the rich get richer because the debt creates speculative frenzies and drives up asset values (to the point that unprofitable things get valued on hype, not profits). The vast majority of people? They have been languishing throughout the rise of that graph -- less savings, their earnings worth less, harder to get by.

    It has taken more and more debt just to service the bad debt that has already been created as this all goes on. They won't allow failure, because they know that ends it all -- it will create a cascade of failures and unemployment through roof, years of economic malaise to clear all of the excesses.

    So they now are frantically just piling debt upon debt for as long as they can by intervening in the debt markets directly. It has given us a runaway government, zombie companies that burn through borrowed cash without having to actually earn money, a student loan debt crisis, etc.

    It has gone on because the Fed has destroyed the market forces that would regulate that behavior. At the government level. ... our legislators now sling around trillions of dollars in wasteful and corrupt ways without accountability, and our debt has skyrocketed, growing exponetionally:

    fredgraph (1).png

    Without the Fed we'd be drowing in interest payments by now and we'd default. Our economy would sink completely under the weight of that debt.

    But the Fed has turned into a debt monetization machine. The two graphs combined amount to them creating money out of thin air. ... and using it to buy our own debt. Think about that. ... You are borrowing to live a fantasy. ... and you are funding that borrowing by taking the value from your currency. We have plenty of history to know how much misery that has caused other empires that tried it. It ends up devastating people economically and creating long periods of misery.

    Do you think that can go on forever any more than a Ponzi scheme can? And how do you think it ends?

    If you care, here is something John Rubino posted the other day, putting it into the context of the private debt markets and the stock market bubble it has created.

    Is This The Biggest Financial Bubble Ever? Hell Yes It Is | Seeking Alpha

    While the bubbles we have gotten used to over my lifetime seemed more concentrated in specific areas each time -- junk bonds, next time internet stocks, next time house prices. ... each self-caused crisis led to them answering the debt mess they created by propping it up with more debt by price fixing the cost of money.

    The result is that we are in an everything bubble now as that debt has created a berzerk world. When (and it is a matter of when) they can no longer prop it up, yes, it is going to be devastating. Worse, people will have no understanding of what caused it, so as usual, they will look for the arsonist to ride in the fire truck to fix it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2021
    TigerVols and maumann like this.
  9. ChrisLong

    ChrisLong Well-Known Member

    The first computer system at my paper was nicknamed FRED -- Fucking Ridiculous Editing Device.
     
  10. heyabbott

    heyabbott Well-Known Member

    If you were to buy a car to become an Uber driver you’d go bankrupt by the 2nd auto loan payment. Basically an Uber driver is just monetizing the equity in their car.
     
  11. wicked

    wicked Well-Known Member

    TBG, I agree. I try to live debt-free. My only loan right now is a mortgage. I haven’t had a car payment for years, but that might change soon.

    What I’m getting at is that no one has the appetite to tell people to stop. That arsonist has burned down entire cities and we keep rolling along.

    Who makes the Fed stop printing money, and when?
     
  12. Scout

    Scout Well-Known Member

    I see Uber almost like Netflix... Once driverless cars are with us, if Uber already has everyone with the app, all they have to do is give people a driverless option. Hell, make the rides 1/2 price or 1/4th the price. Whomever can be the dominate app for driverless car requests could be as big as Netflix or even Amazon.
     
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