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Climate Change? Nahhh ...

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Riptide, Oct 23, 2015.

  1. 2muchcoffeeman

    2muchcoffeeman Well-Known Member

    Elon Musk demonstrated a system like that at a Tesla event a couple of years ago, but I don’t think it ever got past the prototype stage.
     
  2. Neutral Corner

    Neutral Corner Well-Known Member

    Apparently that is their product line, period. We'll see.
     
  3. Alma

    Alma Well-Known Member

    Those'll be fun to store in a landfill.

    Drastically reducing consumption - which means a sharp drawdown of globalism - is the only real answer, and it's proven in the NYT story. Nation shuts down because of COVID, emissions go down 7%.

    We're not shutting the nation down for 5 years.

    If wind and solar were the best energy methods, for goodness sakes, they'd be our primary energy methods. There'd be a shitload of money to make in it - just like natural gas. The technologies have instead been inched along by the government.
     
  4. 2muchcoffeeman

    2muchcoffeeman Well-Known Member

    The best probable option for vehicles is hydrogen fuel-cell technology, with the caveat that we’d have to convert the current petrochemical supply infrastructure to provide hydrogen.
     
    Neutral Corner likes this.
  5. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    I don't really live in your world. Sure, you can find someone out there saying "the earth will end in X years!" and who is running a "movement" that "ramped up its emotional strong-arming nto using children to shame us and tying, you know, wind turbines to moral injustices of all kinds."

    Just as someone else can make sweeping characterizations about some idiot I can find who denies that global warming is happening.

    But most people don't live in your world of framed narratives.

    My guess is that the typical person understands pretty well that empirically a lot of changes are happening to the planet that may threaten it, and the more informed people have seen that there is a ton of evidence that our behavior over the last 70, 80 years has likely caused it, particularly with regard to carbon emmissions.

    I agree that nobody wants to come out and say that we need to alter our lives to even try to address it. My observation is that there is something about human nature, that unless we have done something that has created a crisis that we can't ignore, people will delude themselves into believing anything that either 1) gives them an immediate reward without any regard for the future cost, or 2) allows them to not have to think about a difficult situation or choice.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2021
  6. Inky_Wretch

    Inky_Wretch Well-Known Member

    I meant majority of new car sales, not cars on the road. I plan to still be driving my 2006 Jeep TJ in 15 years - with antique vehicle tags on it.
     
  7. Neutral Corner

    Neutral Corner Well-Known Member

    The bottom line is that most of the manufacturers say that they will be going over to all new vehicle production being electric. That will mean economies of scale and new ways to salvage and recycle parts and batteries. It's coming no matter what our opinion about it is.

    I'll drive my Miata until the wheels fall off or my knee gets so bad I don't want to kick the clutch anymore, and that's ok, but change is coming.
     
    Driftwood likes this.
  8. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Car manufacturers will supply whatever the demand is for -- provided that governments don't alter the actual marketplace. There aren't economies of scale that can make an EV comparable in cost to a comparable gas-powered vehicle. Not with the cost of good enough batteries and where the price of oil is. Can that change? Sure. But there is nothing to suggest it is going to change. Given how long battery-powered cars have been around and how they haven't been able to supplant gas-powered cars as a value proposition, I'd actually guess that if anything is going to organically supplant gas-powered internal combustion engines, it would be a completely different technology from the one every armchair central planner is certain is the future.

    If car manufacturers are signaling new EVs, it's not because a large organic marketplace exists for them. It's due to all of the subsidization of EVs already, and the car manufacturers seeing the handwriting on the wall for more government regulation or subsidization.
     
    Alma likes this.
  9. TigerVols

    TigerVols Well-Known Member

    What's the difference between governments (which of course are nothing but the collective "us") subsidizing EVs in the 21st Century and the government subsidizing combustion engine transportation by paving roads at the turn of the 20th Century and onwards?
     
    Mngwa likes this.
  10. Alma

    Alma Well-Known Member

    You can find someone? It's the movement. It's shuffled through a variety of approaches on how to convince people - Al Gore, An Inconvenient Truth, Celebrities like Leo DiCaprio doing docs and driving electric cars, certain politicians doomily intoning the end of the world, trotting Greta Thunberg onto the world stage as a pawn, pivoting to the phrase "climate justice..." that's the movement. It's like saying - on an unrelated topic - we arrived at skyrocketing incarceration numbers in America through a random series of someones vs. ALEC writing a bunch of bills to be used in state legislatures. It's not framed narratives; it's what it is.

    When Michael Moore, hero of the left, makes a doc last year blasting renewables, he wasn't arguing climate change wasn't real - he was arguing that the "solutions" weren't really solutions. Moore often overdoes his conclusions, but it's not like there wasn't anything to them. YouTube took the doc down and every green energy blog on the planet flipped out.

    It's not a framed narrative any more than "yes, Alden really is stripping newspapers to the bone for reasons unrelated to creating quality journalism" is a framed narrative. But, we can disagree.


    I agree with all of this.
     
  11. dixiehack

    dixiehack Well-Known Member

    I feel like people on the right overrate the influence of Greta Thunberg in roughly equal proportion to the way people on the left overrate the influence of Franklin Graham.
     
    OscarMadison likes this.
  12. Alma

    Alma Well-Known Member

    Well, to be frank, I'm guessing the market was clamoring for 20th Century change.

    We already know no one's clamoring for the second.
     
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