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Running racism in America thread

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Scout, May 26, 2020.

  1. heyabbott

    heyabbott Well-Known Member

    And though I was born in the first year of JFK’s presidency, Obama is the best POTUS of my lifetime. They are all flawed, some psychotically so, some just unqualified or both. Being the first nonwhite President against a deeply racist opposition from MConnell and FOXNews, he had limitations. He didn’t push back back hard enough thinking if he did he would alienate the middle of the road voter. In the end, those people went with trump any way. Not that he could foresee this, no one could. But if he pushed back against the Republican Senate like LBJ, it would have been better.
     
  2. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    I am agreement that nearly everyone has their biases, prejudices. ... and in some cases outright bigoted attitudes.

    But you can not legislate or socially engineer those attitudes away in ham-handed ways. If experience should teach us anything, that kind of authoritarian approach has the opposite effect. You ostensibly are trying to address an injustice by doing an injustice to someone else. And it creates resentments which cause people to dig in even harder, which gives rise to even more hateful beliefs.

    When it comes to the Justice Department, which was the discussion I was responding to, the way I see it: 1) You will not be able to see in every employee's heart, know if there is any bias that is going to affect their job. 2) Trying to color-code jobs feels good for some people, but it's racism in reverse. In my opinion at least, the goal should be always be a meritocracy, and whether it is jobs being shut off to blacks or hispanics, or it's preference being given to them over white people, you are advocating for the opposite of a meritocracy, which by definition is completely color blind. 3) What we can do, is put institutions in place that are just, so if you get a racist person in a position of power, there is a check on their ability to do an injustice.

    I find your notion that someone saying they aren't racist proves that they are one. ... to be absurd. This is how authoritarian regimes persecute people. You accuse someone of a crime. They deny. You tell them that they are obviously a criminal and their denial proves it. And you persecute them. I am always wary of people who act that way. It's even more scary that you have people who treat others that way, and turn it into, "If you don't go along with what I am demanding, clearly you are a racist." It's borderline Orwellian to me.
     
    Batman likes this.
  3. Mr._Graybeard

    Mr._Graybeard Well-Known Member

    It's no crime to be a racist. It's the human condition.
     
  4. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    No, it's not a crime. But there is nothing inherent in humans that makes them have racist attitudes. There are people who are like that. There are others who aren't.
     
  5. Mr._Graybeard

    Mr._Graybeard Well-Known Member

    And, let me guess ... you're in the non-racist camp?
     
  6. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    I evaluate people as individuals. Same as I want others to treat me.

    It's that simple.

    So, for example, I know black people that I like, some that I love the way I'd love a brother, some that I respect, a few I think are brilliant. ... and I know black people I think are terrible people, dishonest, idiots, complete dolts. It's the same with people of every other race I have come into contact with.

    When I meet you, you are not just a race to me. You are you.

    I recognize racial differences, and I am open to people's stories about how others treating them because of their race has impacted their lives. I personally can only control how I treat others. ... and if I ever meet you, I promise to see you as an individual and work from there about what I think of you. I won't have put you in some broad category, for example your race, that come with built-in prejudices for me. Treating you that way says nothing about you as an individual, and that is all I personally care about.
     
    Liut likes this.
  7. heyabbott

    heyabbott Well-Known Member

    Of course racism is inherent in humans. Tribalism and racism are the same thing. We are good, You are bad. It’s the history of the human race
     
    OscarMadison likes this.
  8. Scout

    Scout Well-Known Member

    We are not born racists or oppressive towards others, but religion, the media, TV, movies, ads sure do create them.
     
  9. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    No, we are all individuals. ... who have it within ourselves to become all kinds of things. I'm not your broad-brush message-board characterization of "humans."

    I am me.

    Just because there have been people in history who carried out genocides doesn't mean every human is a genocidal maniac. Just because there are people who steal, doesn't mean we're all thieves. Just because someone performs an act of philanthropathy, doesn't mean everyone is philanthropic. Just because there have been people who put their lives on the line for a stranger, doesn't mean we're all heroic. And just because there are people with racist attitudes, doesn't mean that everyone has those attitudes.
     
  10. Mr._Graybeard

    Mr._Graybeard Well-Known Member

    See, it's not just how you act, it's what you think. Even more viscerally: How does your amygdala respond?

    When I was a kid growing up in the '60s, I was exposed to racist and ethnocentric ideas pretty much every day, from family, peers and the media. Mom sent us to a liberal Lutheran church whose pastor traveled south to minister at Selma. One of the two most genuine Christians I ever met.

    The congregation was aghast. As they say, the most segregated day of the week is Sunday.

    Did all that shit just roll off the back of a 7-year-old? Hell no. I am my father's son, and my grandfather's grandson. I have the self-awareness now to recognize that they weren't always right -- but when I was 7 or 8 or 9, they were always right. I don't believe anybody can purge all of that poison out of their system.

    Go to Nigeria or Japan. You don't think you'll be viewed through a racial lens? You bet you will -- and the refraction will not be positive.
     
    OscarMadison likes this.
  11. heyabbott

    heyabbott Well-Known Member

    Monday is Native American Day

    it ought to be The Christian Church Sanctioned Genocide and Slavery Day.
     
  12. Spartan Squad

    Spartan Squad Well-Known Member

    100 percent agree. We can't broad-brush-stroke people into certain camps. Some people have overt predilections toward certain attitudes and others understand why such attitudes are bad and actively avoid them.

    I don't think I'm stepping too far out of line by saying that I agree we can't just say humans are inherently racist, but I believe we have inherent biases. It can be a benign thing like I hate eggs but someone else loves them. Or we have a bias to congregate toward groups of people we have interacted with and tend to trust those groups more than groups we haven't. But I think the trick is for people to understand exactly what you said up above—just because they aren't from my group doesn't mean I shouldn't give them a chance. That's where even the most woke among us fall down. We're (and by we I mean the royal we not that I'm including any one person in this) all about the idea of equality and a colorblind society, but we get caught up in these biases that we don't properly regulate.

    We're going to be a better place if we first recognize the history of how we marginalized people, second how we have our own biases and three actively work to embrace others and make it socially acceptable to do so. If I may be so presumptuous, I think living in an urban, diverse environment helps that. We get the chance to actually encounter character rather than how groups are portrayed. My in-laws are good-meaning people and are very accepting of others, but they fall into traps where they say something because it's a joke that people around them say but don't realize how it might be offensive. They also live in a very homogenous region of CA.
     
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