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The Economy

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by TigerVols, May 14, 2020.

  1. Mr._Graybeard

    Mr._Graybeard Well-Known Member

    I thought it was interesting that the lowest income sector showed the greatest inmprovement in consumer sentiment in more than 40 years. In light of the manpower crunch in the service sector and the "great resignation," people who struggle to make ends meet may be enjoying some brighter days.
     
  2. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    It is really interesting. And smacks a bit of something similar in 1980 before inflation got really out of hand. Rich Curtain, who is the survey's chief economist noted it. What happened then was that there was rising optimism among low-income households because of their expectation that their wages would be rising. That turned out to be a precursor to a wage-price spiral that sent inflation through the roof. This is what I was noting yesterday in the discussion on here.
     
  3. goalmouth

    goalmouth Well-Known Member

    My grandfather sold his radio tube manufacturing business to RCA in September 1929. He was out of the stock market weeks before the crash.

    RCA offered my great uncle the job of running the nascent CBS network, but he said he was too busy. But that's another story.
     
  4. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Outing alert: Goalmouth's grandpa was Jesse Livermore!
     
  5. wicked

    wicked Well-Known Member

    According to the Internet (so it must be true), Jesse Livermore's great-granddaughter is Brandi Love.
     
  6. Twirling Time

    Twirling Time Well-Known Member

    I look at inflation this way: My mortgage, which is fixed and by far my biggest monthly expense, becomes a lesser and lesser percentage of my monthly budget.
     
  7. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Is it a bad thing that I made a Jesse Livermore reference. ... but I had no idea who Brandi Love was?

    Also, Jesse Livermore was known as the Boy Plunger. That would actually make a decent porn star name.
     
  8. Mr._Graybeard

    Mr._Graybeard Well-Known Member

    As I recall it, inflation was already spiking in the '70s because OPEC production limits and the Iranian revolution drove up energy prices. The Fed under Paul Volcker raised the Federal Funds Rate to 20% in 1981, sending the economy into a double-dip recession. US inflation, which peaked at 14.8 percent in March 1980, fell below 3 percent by 1983 (per Wikipedia, citing the BLS).

    Reagan got credit for "taming" inflation in the '80s, as I recall.
     
  9. BTExpress

    BTExpress Well-Known Member

    The way you tame inflation is by extreme short-term pain for long-term gain.

    No politician dares to risk that anymore.
     
    OscarMadison likes this.
  10. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    It's not the absolute CPI level year by year during that period. The point was the wage-price spiral. That disparity between the sentiment of the lowest earners to everyone else in 1980 may have been a precursor to clue people in about the double-dip recession that was coming. You are bringing up Paul Volcker. He jacked the Fed Funds rate because inflation was out of control. That brought about a nasty recession. ... Now jump ahead to today. Inflation is running very hot. Financial conditions, due to the Fed, are looser than they ever have been. In an astonishing way if you had fallen asleep in the 980s or 1990s and woke up today. If inflation forces Powell to raise rates aggressively. ... that optimism over wage expectations by low earners could be a similar signal to what it was then.

    History never repeats itself, it sometimes rhymes, blah blah blah. Or it doesn't. SoI am not saying that that 1980 period is a script we are going to follow now, because I don't know. Rich Curtain was pointing out the similarities, htough.

    I do know that generally the Fed has created a mess, on whatever timeline it plays out.
     
    OscarMadison likes this.
  11. Mr._Graybeard

    Mr._Graybeard Well-Known Member

    I think the reason the hoi polloi was optimistic in 1980 was because they thought Ol' Dutch was going to make everything right again after a rough ride in the '70s. I have no idea whether the sentiment of the lowest income tier differed from the rest of the population back then. I do think that Reagan's embrace of "supply-side economics" marked the beginning of the GOP's descent into fantasyland.

    As for the current contrast among income levels, my perspective is that inflation has been most evident over the last half decade at the upper end of consumerism: real estate, high-end durable goods, investments. The folks stocking retail shelves and manning the drive-thru haven't been feeding the inflationary spiral -- to do that you need to be able to borrow, and to borrow, you have to have income. I'm happy if they're getting a break for a change.
     
    2muchcoffeeman likes this.
  12. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    FWIW, that UMICH disparity in 1980 was prior to the election. It was during the summer when Carter was actually leading in the polls.

    And it's simplistic to think, "Wages are higher for low-wage earners, they are getting a break for a change!"

    The inflationary picture is such that their higher wages are showing up in generalized prices. And it's more than a wash. If you earn $1.10 today and it buys you what 90 cents bought you yesterday, your higher wages are meaningless. Your standard of living may be decreasing. In the case of those low wage earners, I am afraid that they are getting hit by the same forces that have hurt them throughout this period of Fed stupidity, except now the disparity between haves and have nots that they have been blowing out is going to widen. The Fed has been creating money and buying mortgage-backed securities every month, even as house prices predictably have gone through the roof (no pun intended). That is showing up in rents, up more than 3 percent in the last year if you look at the CPI report. ... and it is accelerating. That kind of thing hits low wage earners disproportionately.
     
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