Ukraine Always Get What You Want

CNN just interviewed a Ukrainian travel agent cum soldier who basically said, We'll handle the ground fighting if you give us air cover.

 

One of our local bar/ restaurants is having Ukrainian specials this week to support Ukraine.

 

Because that's the stakes?

If we got into a shooting war with Russians, it's not a 0 percent chance that it wouldn't escalate to nuclear exchange. It's also not 100 percent that it would. The actual answer is somewhere in between.

So where does the line need to be drawn before you'll say, "OK maybe we shouldn't do that?"

If there's a 1 percent chance Putin goes off the rails, would you still do it? If there's a 50 percent chance, would you still do it?

What's the number where you're like, "still totally worth it!"

 

Has anyone experienced air travel since 2/24? Seems sure to be more unpleasant an experience than it already is.

 

And of course “civilized” = white.

It hits closer to home when people look more like you. That’s just a fact. Look at the fundraising the IRA did in the states during the Troubles.

 

The problem here is that Putin assumes - rightly - we'll do nothing rather than take on those risks.

That assumption is what got us here.

 

True. And awful, whether we're talking about Afghanistan or Iraq or Syria or Yemen - or refugees at our own borders.

Europe is welcoming Ukrainian refugees.

Meanwhile African exchange students stranded in Ukraine can't get a seat on the train to flee.

 

wars are rarely benevolently fought. People die for their self interest or at least old Christian white men direct that others die. If one can make the case that an American war in Niger, Sudan, Burma or Yemen is in America’s self interest we would fight there.

Western Media as if there’s an a nongovernmental Eastern media?

 

Man, it's clear some of the people in this thread didn't grow up having to watch movies like "Threads" and "The Day After"...

 

Reuters:

EXCLUSIVE Americans broadly support Ukraine no-fly zone, Russia oil ban -poll

It was not clear if respondents who supported a no-fly zone were fully aware of the risk of conflict, and majorities opposed the idea of sending American troops to Ukraine or conducting air strikes to support the Ukrainian army.

Some 74% of Americans - including solid majorities of Republicans and Democrats - said the United States and its allies in the North Atlantic Treaty Organization should impose a no-fly zone in Ukraine, the poll found.

- - - - -

However, some 62% of respondents in the Reuters/Ipsos poll said paying more for fuel and gas because of the crisis was worthwhile to defend another democratic country.

"You see increasing willingness among the American public to pay costs for that support" of Ukraine, said Craig Kafura, a public opinion expert at the Chicago Council on Global Affairs.

 

The legend is that "The Day After" helped us pull back from the brink the last time we were this close to nuclear war. It happened to air just before the Able Archer incident in 1983. Reagan saw it and was sobered a bit by it. The movie, closely followed by the near-miss with Able Archer a month or so later (and also coming on the heels of the Korean airliner getting shot down in September), supposedly made him rethink his approach to nuclear deterrence and the Soviet Union.
Maybe it's time to either re-air it or do a remake.

 

Who's gonna show it to Putin?