Ukraine Always Get What You Want

If it comes to that, then WWIII has already been started, willingly, by Putin himself. He knows where the red line is. As bad as this is, that Rubicon has not been crossed yet.

 

Where was all this pearl clutching for all of the wars the United States and the rest of NATO have ignored? You do realize there have been quite a few of them, right?

 

Since 1945, the number of NATO, Warsaw Pact, or countries with nuclear weapons invaded by NATO, the Warsaw Pact, the United States, Russia or anyone else == zero.

Literally no one ever has been willing to risk nuclear exchange.

 

The USA participates in every war, everywhere on this planet, to the extent of its national interest. And this country has participated in every war on this planet since 12/7/41. Sometimes it’s just supplying weapons in a covert manner. Sometimes it’s preventing some country from introducing weapons in a war. Sometimes it providing $3 billion weapon systems. Sometimes it’s putting troops on the ground.
Our interests in the Ukraine today are greater than our interests in Afghanistan following 9/11. Russia is fucking with international, multinational business and trade . A depression in the US hurts China as much as it hurts. Thank God trump isn’t anywhere near the ability to do something because 1 million Ukrainians would be dead rather than be refugees.

 

It was wrong then, too. Does the fact that we've done something before mean that we should necessarily do it again, and be OK with it? Especially if it was something wrong?

I think I, and many others, too -- including, probably some who have been silent on this thread/site -- have a clearer, better understanding of this "war" than some others, and that has contributed to the "pearl-clutching," as you call it. And it makes things all the more infuriating, tragic and inexplicable.

This is one man's war, and it's a sheer land grab. There is no "cause." (Even Hitler had a cause), and Putin has now committed war crimes that need to be answered. I'd like to know what anybody's going to do about Putin, if anything, before Ukraine no longer exists, either literally, or on a map.

 

We just escaped by the skin of our teeth after having a numb nuts simpleton as president who just did random unhelpful shit after watching TV and fancied himself an expert in everything and could not be told different. You are comically out of your depth here.

 

The United States is participating in this war quite openly, to an extent that in the pre-nuclear era would already mean Russia and the US were at war. We are openly supplying Ukraine with weapons. We are openly sharing intelligence with them that is resulting in the deaths of Russian soldiers. We are leading a worldwide attempt to destroy Russia's economy. All of that is wholly justified, but those have been throughout history acts of war. Putin -- SO FAR -- has accepted the post Hiroshima rules of engagement. If we don't kill each other openly, it's not war.

 

That's not to say we haven't been inches away a few times.
If we'd invaded Cuba in 1962 it would have happened. The Cubans had low-yield tactical nukes ready to light up our landing craft. There was also a Soviet sub that was ready to launch a nuclear torpedo at an American fleet until one officer talked some sense into another.
I've mentioned Able Archer 83 a few times. The Soviets were sitting on go, waiting for one false step.
Russia and China had a brief border war in 1969 that flirted with going nuclear.
This current situation, I fear, has joined that thankfully brief list.

 

So what happens if/when suddenly and unexpectedly all Russian troops around Kiev high tail it out of there as fast as they can?
Do we assume a nuke strike is soon coming? Does the USA sit idly by?

 

If one nuke flies, they all fly, whether it's aimed at Kyiv, Paris, Prague, London or wherever. At that point this entire discussion becomes moot.

 

I don’t think that convoy can move, let alone high tail it anywhere.

 

Meanwhile, "don't politicize sports!" continues to be the rallying cry of Status Quo Warriors the world over.