The Economy

The Big Ragu · Feb 8, 2022

Batman said: ↑

Like I said in the other post, one of the big concerns with this is not the government tracking us. It's the government — in concert with major banks — having the ability to micromanage the economy and people's behavior. To basically turn the U.S. and the world into a dictatorship through economic means. The digital dollar is only one piece of a machine they've been building and slowly implementing, mostly through regulations instead of laws.

Another big piece is ESG scores (Environmental, Social, Governance) that a lot of big banks and companies are exploring. Those are like China's infamous social credit scores. If you want to get a car loan, for example, it might get turned down if it's not an electric car. A business loan might get denied if it's not considered environmentally friendly enough, or if it's deemed socially unacceptable by one entity or another (a gun purchase, for example).
Right now you can still pay physical cash for things. A digital dollar, in theory, would allow the government to much more easily restrict them by denying all transactions of a given product. If some algorithm detects a milk shortage, for example, you might only be able to buy one gallon instead of two.
The advancements in artificial intelligence programs that would make all of this easier to solve is another piece of the machinery. The ultimate idea is to transition to something called "stakeholder capitalism" instead of our traditional idea of capitalism.
The recent embrace of Modern Monetary Theory (i.e., print as much money as you want and pretend there will be no consequences) is another component.

I know it sounds like kooky tinfoil hat stuff, and it's hard to get your head around. The World Economic Forum could quickly become mocked as a right-wing bogeyman like George Soros. But there sure are a lot of major corporations and very influential people (including current political leaders) who are buying into it all. And when you start piling up enough of those pieces it doesn't feel like a coincidence, especially when you see them floated in the mainstream press like this. If those stories are getting out there, then it usually means someone high up the chain is doing more than just thinking about it as an intellectual exercise.

Now is the time for a 'great reset'

Partners
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I think the kinds of restrictions you are talking about would cause a rejection of the dollar. They could even try to outlaw public blockchain currencies as an alternative, and one or more of them would still take over as the de facto currency in use (assuming we are heading to a digital world). In fact, I can't think of anything our government could try to do that would cause a quicker rejection of the dollar and widespread adoption of a decentralized way of transacting outside the reach of any government. Take your milk example. If the government tried to limit what you can't and can't buy, why would you not expect an underground black market beyond their reach to take hold, the way it has in just about every place with those kinds of limitations?

As for the ESG thing you posited, if anything, I am seeing signs that people are tiring of it as a fad, because 1) they are realizing that there is no way to quantify what is and isn't environmentally or socially beneficial; there is so much subjectivity involved that whatever criteria they supposedly have leads to inconsistent application, and 2) people are seeing the negative effects of it firsthand. For example, the price of energy has spiked, and a big contributor has been the lack of investment in new oil and gas supply over the last decade and a half due to central planning attempts that funneled capital away from exploration, and into various hand-picked alternative energy technologies that are either still not viable or are more costly. If anything we are starting to see a backlash against ESG investing, with people realizing that the whole exercise does a lot to make people feel good about themselves without necessarily doing much to make the world a better place.

Batman · Feb 8, 2022

The Big Ragu said: ↑

I think the kinds of restrictions you are talking about would cause a rejection of the dollar. They could even try to outlaw public blockchain currencies as an alternative, and one or more of them would still take over as the de facto currency in use (assuming we are heading to a digital world). In fact, I can't think of anything our government could try to do that would cause a quicker rejection of the dollar and widespread adoption of a decentralized way of transacting outside the reach of any government. Take your milk example. If the government tried to limit what you can't and can't buy, why would you not expect an underground black market beyond their reach to take hold, the way it has in just about every place with those kinds of limitations?

As for the ESG thing you posited, if anything, I am seeing signs that people are tiring of it as a fad, because 1) they are realizing that there is no way to quantify what is and isn't environmentally or socially beneficial; there is so much subjectivity involved that whatever criteria they supposedly have leads to inconsistent application, and 2) people are seeing the negative effects of it firsthand. For example, the price of energy has spiked, and a big contributor has been the lack of investment in new oil and gas supply over the last decade and a half due to central planning attempts that funneled capital away from exploration, and into various hand-picked alternative energy technologies that are either still not viable or are more costly. If anything we are starting to see a backlash against ESG investing, with people realizing that the whole exercise does a lot to make people feel good about themselves without necessarily doing much to make the world a better place.
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I certainly hope you're right. If there's one thing you can count on from big business types, it's that they do love fads and quickly move from one to the next. So hopefully the ESG thing is indeed just a passing fad. The part that gives me pause, though, is how its principles align with things that seemed preposterous only a few years ago but have found their way into at least proposed laws and initiatives like the Green New Deal and Build Back Better.
The latter slogan has been used by politicians in several countries, not just by Joe Biden.

Twirling Time · Feb 8, 2022

Having said what I said, I think it's 3-1 odds in favor of Trump remaining unindicted on Election Day 2022.

Garland (bless his heart) doesn't have the stomach for the fight, and the poor Fulton County DA just doesn't have the firepower to indict an ex-POTUS.

Starman · Feb 8, 2022

I posted this in the general politics thread, but it probably really belongs here:

Shutdown of Ambassador Bridge threatens auto industry's 'fragile supply chains'

Hermes · Feb 9, 2022

playthrough said: ↑

Layoffs begin Tuesday and affected employees will receive a 1-year digital subscription to Peloton as part of their severance.

Well that's just wonderful.
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“I’m going to get into the best shape of my life, take a picture in a bathing suit on the beach, post it to Instagram and show Peloton what it’s missing.”

Hermes · Mar 5, 2022

For all the chaos at the IRS, I was stunned we got our refund deposited in our account on Feb. 28.

Our accountant had my wife’s practice and ours done about as early as humanly possible, but given the staffing shortages, I figured we be waiting much longer.

Will be interesting to see others’ experiences this tax season.

BTExpress · Mar 5, 2022

401(k) wasn't taken out of my 10 bi-weekly McClatchy severance payments.
Didn't become eligible for 401(k) at new job until January.

Ergo, had four months of double incomes with no 401(k) distributions.
I honestly expected to owe more than the $1,470 I do owe.

Mngwa · Mar 5, 2022

Hermes said: ↑

For all the chaos at the IRS, I was stunned we got our refund deposited in our account on Feb. 28.

Our accountant had my wife’s practice and ours done about as early as humanly possible, but given the staffing shortages, I figured we be waiting much longer.

Will be interesting to see others’ experiences this tax season.
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We got ours before that.

DanOregon · Mar 10, 2022

Y'all freaked out by gas prices and are going to buy an electric car? Guess what?

Surging nickel prices are bad news for electric car manufacturers

And I disagree about it being bad for manufacturers - a report I heard said to expect prices of cars to go up a grand.

MileHigh · Mar 10, 2022

US inflation soared 7.9% in past year, a fresh 40-year high

goalmouth · Mar 10, 2022

Good news: Container vessel operators have been unable to completely pass on their soaring fuel costs to shippers as recent trans-Pacific volume has declined. They ocean lines are also reducing vessel cruising speeds (slow steaming) to save fuel. That has led to expectations that West Coast port ops may return to a more normal pace in the coming months.

wicked · Mar 10, 2022

But if fewer goods are coming over, aren’t there just different types of supply chain issues?

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The Economy

The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

Batman Well-Known Member

Twirling Time Well-Known Member

Starman Well-Known Member

Hermes Well-Known Member

Hermes Well-Known Member

BTExpress Well-Known Member

Mngwa Well-Known Member

DanOregon Well-Known Member

MileHigh Moderator Staff Member

goalmouth Well-Known Member

wicked Well-Known Member

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The Economy

The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

Batman Well-Known Member

Twirling Time Well-Known Member

Starman Well-Known Member

Hermes Well-Known Member

Hermes Well-Known Member

BTExpress Well-Known Member

Mngwa Well-Known Member

DanOregon Well-Known Member

MileHigh Moderator Staff Member

goalmouth Well-Known Member

wicked Well-Known Member

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