MLB 2022: The Long and Winding Thread

So what? The question is when comparing players value is how important is position. We can easily compare offensive contribution, but position matters. Nobody says Kevin Kiermaier is better than Freddy Freeman because he plays CF. However, Mike Trout with similar offensive stats to Miguel Cabrera is much more valuable because he plays CF.

 

Ted Williams training Marines to fly and flying next to John Glenn over Korea, landing a plane on fire hurt his chances at 3,000 hits. But just make milestones to make a player seem better than he is.

 

Jayson's post did not state or even imply that Cabrera has been a better hitter than Ted Williams, merely that there are multiple ways to indicate Cabrera has been a top shelf Hall of Fame hitter throughout his career. Honestly, what was the size of the bet you lost on the 2012 AL MVP vote anyway? I know writers who voted for Trout that year, and they accepted Cabrera's victory and went on watching baseball.

 

It is implied. Because he is the only player to do something his talent is being overstated.

 

Stan Musial missed the list by 25 HRs. Lists like this prove he’s the most underrated player in the Hall of Fame.

 

OPS is not perfect, but it measures what actually happened, not what some statistician thinks would happen if all things were equal. The latter is more of a projection and brings far more subjectivity into the equation. I gave you that reason before, so it was inaccurate for you to claim that I had done so without reason. I also didn't dismiss it entirely. I just put a much lower priority on it than more objective measures.

Actually, we don't know what Trout would be as an infielder. That is a different set of skills. Cabrera was actually a very solid third baseman and even played a lot of outfield early in his career, but he didn't really have the range for either. Again, you are trying to present projections as fact while I stick to fact as fact.

All of these measures have value. We disagree on how much, but it is absolutely ridiculous to claim that Trout was cheated. I can subjectively say that Cabrera was better that year and back it up with data. I can understand how you can do the same for Trout. I cannot see how any reasonable person looks at that and thinks it is Trout and not even close. That seems more like fanboyism getting in the way of logic.

 

That is because they were doing what justglad is doing here, trying to make it out to be some great injustice. It wasn't. It was close and Cabrera was a little better.

 

More valuable, but again, you are overstating the difference while ignoring the fact that Cabrera played in 22 more games. Cabrera's bat was in the lineup 22 more times. THAT is much more valuable.

Also, you also ignore that the Tigers made the playoffs that year and the Angels did not. You may not like it, but that matters in the equation as well. It isn't just an old school versus new school argument, but I get why it looks like one on the surface. By old school measures, Cabrera's case blows Trout's out of the water. It is only through a balanced approach that it becomes close.

The funny thing is that Cabrera was better in 2013, when he won the award again but did not repeat the Triple Crown.

 

It's not exactly like Trout has been slighted in the baseball honors department. He has three MVP awards, same as Mickey Mantle and more than Willie Mays and Williams (2) and Hank Aaron (1).

 

3,000!!!
Line single to right

 

Had the Washington Nationals been involved, they'd most likely be complaining the runner didn't just slide into the out, unwritten rules and all that.