Climate Change? Nahhh ...

We're going to fight a war with Canada for sending us clouds to block our sunshine?

The main ingredient in a solar panel is silicon, of which there are piles and piles of it on our beaches and in our deserts.

 

I think Ragu and others have made some good points about how technology and innovations powered by fossil fuels have improved society. Baring some sort of nuclear catastrophe or deadly pandemic, which forces us back to square one, I don’t see a long line of people volunteering to give up their phone, their ability to travel or heat/cool their homes.

That being said, a lot of the improvements and innovations were done without regard or knowledge of the external costs. Burn that coal and the smoke eventually goes away! Make that product in the factory and pour the solvent into the ground or river — it’s gone!

It’s a little bit like those of us who’ve been diagnosed with Type II diabetes. All those slices of pizza, delicious Coca-Cola and baked goods taste great, but there’s a cost and cutbacks that eventually need to happen to avoid disastrous consequences.

In short … at some point the world’s consumers, industries and governments have to eat their vegetables.

 

Where I want to retire has shifted dramatically northward. My hope is now northern Michigan.

 

So, yes to petrodownsides. But they're baked in. OK.

 

Interesting question inherent in all this.

At what point is the price of 'progress' too high?

Sort of a macro Trolley Problem.

 

Just last night my county commission voted to put a six-month moratorium on approving any new solar farms because the local knuckleheads are up in arms about it.

 

The letters in "Noah Smith" can be rearranged as "Strawman Slayer" ...

 

This is why I washed out in precalculus

 

I agree with this. At some point we got stuck preserving the way we do things rather than asking how we can do them better. Computers might be the exception but it’s because more money was to be had in going smaller and faster and more capabilities. Imagine if we clung to desktops like we cling to fossil fuels. We’d have sleeker paperweights while academics muse about making the computer portable.

We can’t deny what fossil fuel has done for the modernization of society and the expansion of society. But at some point we need to admit we need to move to the laptop computer and leave a desktop behind. And there’s more modernization to be had with alternative fuel sources. There’s more money to be made and careers to create.

At some point colonialism led to great Western expansion and opportunities and new discoveries and innovations and our world would not be what it is today without it. But there was a cost. It cost human lives. It wrecked societies in the Americas and Africa. We still see imperialism and territorial conflicts but we acknowledge we can’t continue that way.

I appreciate the argument about the economy of oil because we can’t just turn on a dime. I think yes we are intertwined and we need to untangle ourselves. At some point—sooner than oil companies are willing to admit—oil will become scarce. And woe to the world that didn’t have a backup plan when it does. Assuming the planet is still livable.

Which is another thing. Are we so resigned to this that we just need to move so we can keep our cars? Why not try to fix the problem?

And ripping a certain poster to shreds for suggesting green energy will hit middle class in the pocket books is 100 percent what I’m doing. When that certain poster uses that as the excuse d’jour to have a dishonest debate about climate change, I’m not going to just accept it at face value. Their whole debate is basically a kid not wanting to clean their room because Billy next door has a messy room and Timmy down the way gets more allowance. He just doesn’t want to clean his room and is making up excuses.

 

Well, "suggesting green energy will hit [the] middle class in the pocket books" does strike me as well beyond the bounds of civil discussion.

 

From anyone else it’s fine. But them I don’t take anything they say as anything but dishonest whataboutism