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Climate Change? Nahhh ...

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Riptide, Oct 23, 2015.

  1. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

  2. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

  3. swingline

    swingline Well-Known Member

  4. Alma

    Alma Well-Known Member

    Worth reading beyond the headline on that one, for you eventually reach these words:

    "Since I locked that first chain around my waist, I have been arrested three times in nonviolent actions. My superiors at Oak Ridge warned me to be careful but did not discipline me."

    Another:

    I’m all for decorum, but not when it will cost us the Earth.
     
  5. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member


    sure, but

    My superiors at Oak Ridge warned me to be careful but did not discipline me.

    But I was motivated to continue because these scientist-led political campaigns have attracted positive media attention and contributed to major policy wins. At the end of last year, a group of us protested the impact of luxury travel at more than a dozen private airport terminals in 13 countries; within a month of our actions, the Podemos party of Spain submitted a request to the European Commission to take measures to reduce the use of private planes. When scientists take action, people listen.

    The scientific community has tried writing dutiful reports for decades, with no reduction in greenhouse gas emissions from fossil fuels to show for it. It is time to try something new. We must work to change the culture of our institutions, be honest about our values, advocate for climate justice and experiment. Great experiments push at the boundaries of knowledge and propriety. They are risky, volatile, blasphemous. But when they work, the world changes.

    Scientific institutions should support activism and advocacy, especially by experts. The A.G.U. should do more to publicly support policies informed by its members’ science, such as declaring a climate emergency and ending fossil fuel extraction and subsidies.

    I did not make the decision to become an activist lightly; I recognized that my actions would have consequences, and I knew that I could face retaliation. But inaction during this critical time will have far greater consequences.
     
    Neutral Corner likes this.
  6. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    The piece raises lots of interesting questions about the moral and ethical imperatives of science and activism.
     
  7. Alma

    Alma Well-Known Member

    It does.

    One of them is what to do when activism doesn’t pay the bills. Scapegoat your former employer, I guess.

    He knew the risks. He’d been warned. He took it far enough that his employer fired him. Now it’s time to martyr oneself in the NYT and drag the lab through it.

    So many people in this world are laid off for so so much less - indeed nothing at all. This guy got arrested three times and hijacked a conference.
     
    Azrael likes this.
  8. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member



    she
     
    2muchcoffeeman likes this.
  9. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    I just read that opinion piece by the woman who disrupted the American Geophysical Union's meeting.

    It's a really weak act of civil disobedience in my opinion, even though I am marginally sympathetic to her. Civil disobedience is an act of refusing to obey the laws or commands of a government or authority of some sort. Is the AGU really an "authority" that is treating anyone unjustly? It's an organization of scientists, and if anything, it is trying to use actual scientific exploration -- rather than appeals to emotion -- to look at how climate change is affecting the world. I mean, I looked and among the things scientists were presenting at that conference was a session entitled "A Dire Report Card on the state of the Artic." Rain could soon overtake snow in parts of the Arctic, top scientists warn

    To me, this is just a dumb act of disobedience at best, and at worst, an attention seeker. If you are trying to get people's attention about what you perceive to be a dire climate situation that everyone is twiddling their thumbs on, it makes little sense to me to harrass the people who get it and are actually taking a scientific approach to looking at it. Maybe you chain yourself to a fence around a factory emiting CO2 into the atmosphere or you stand up in a Congressional gallery and shout loudly at the legislators you don't think are doing enough. But what she did?

    Also, she might be passionate and feel she has a just cause, but if everyone who thinks that way starts behaving the way she did, it's a mess. Let's say a climate denier showed up at that conference and behaved as she did. Would she rationalize their behavior using her "They shut them up, how unfair" rhetoric? EVERYONE thinks they are in the right (whether they are or not) about something. Should everyone just behave that way without consequence?

    I am all for civil disobedience. I admire people willing to take a stand. But jeez, know the right place for it. And. ... having the determination to do it means suffering consequences. MLK Jr., Gandhi, etc. knew they would be beaten, taken to jail, etc. That was what made them courageous. That piece tried to straddle it with, "How unfair. I didn't expect to have my research removed from the program or to lose my taxpayer-funded job" But that is followed by the kicker in the last graf, "I recognized that my actions would have consequences, and I knew that I could face retaliation."

    Which is it?
     
    Azrael likes this.
  10. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member


    I don't disagree.

    Still, she raises an interesting point.

    For decades, scientists have been calmly and quietly delivering their research to other calm, quiet scientists. At what point do they have to start banging the pots and pans to get some attention?

    A few years ago, Scientist Rebellion, an international network of scientists concerned about climate change, began a series of strategic acts of nonviolent civil disobedience. After years of waiting in vain for meaningful public action to address climate change, I decided to join them.

    For my first action, I chained myself to a White House gate to demand that the Biden administration declare a climate emergency. Since I locked that first chain around my waist, I have been arrested three times in nonviolent actions. My superiors at Oak Ridge warned me to be careful but did not discipline me.


    This is an especially interesting question in light of the conflict-of-interest problems we accept as the norm on the other side of the same argument. For example:

    Climate change: UAE names oil chief to lead COP28 talks
     
  11. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Science is concerned with acquiring knowledge using a systematic method. They objectively investigate things and then evaluate the evidence, in order to draw conclusions. If you want to be an activist, fine, but the scientists invested in doing that objective sort of work are not part of a "side of the argument."

    You may be able to be a scientist by day, and an activist by night. ... although I can't imagine doing it without struggling to walk that tightrope. What you can't do, is try to mix the two, because by definition your actvisim taints the work you purport to do as a scientist.

    It seems to me that she had a choice to make, and whether she realized she was doing it or not, she made her choice. That piece to me read like she wants to have her cake and eat it, too.
     
    2muchcoffeeman and Azrael like this.
  12. Batman

    Batman Well-Known Member

    Sounds to me like she truly is a mad scientist.

    Back to you, Ragu and Azrael.
     
    Azrael likes this.
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