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The Economy

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by TigerVols, May 14, 2020.

  1. WriteThinking

    WriteThinking Well-Known Member

    The companies are probably asking the same things, and likely to be realizing they can get by with less -- way less. This is not a good thing, but it is probably the truth. And even if they can't get along well with less, they will do it anyway, in the interests of keeping/making money. Nothing is in favor of workers anymore.
     
    Driftwood likes this.
  2. DanOregon

    DanOregon Well-Known Member

    I don't know about Google and Microsoft, but I imagine Amazon is getting rid of workers they needed during the Christmas season - and perhaps business that hasn't held up post-pandemic (food delivery etc). I also figure the pandemic hiring boom, left companies like overgrown landscaping that now needs to be "re-shaped" to better meet current needs. Geez, I could be a Gannett manager with verbiage like that right?
     
  3. dixiehack

    dixiehack Well-Known Member

    The next wave tech companies, whenever they comes, will be much more nimble because they won’t have the kind of capital tied up in real estate that will take today’s big players years to unwind.
     
  4. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    I'm sure all these companies considered reducing executive compensation or limiting stock buybacks first, and undertook layoffs only as a last resort.

    I'm sure of it.
     
    poindexter likes this.
  5. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Stock buybacks are a form of returning money to the owners of the company (by using it to increase the relative stake each owner has in the company, increasing the value of what they own). This is why people own businesses. To earn a return on the capital they are investing. They are not inherently a bad thing (any more than taking a dividend from profits is), even though it elicits a Pavlovian response from some people.

    Let's say you are an owner of Google. Your equity in the company today is worth 35, 40 percent less than it was less than a year ago. You have lost money. And your company's profits have been shrinking, which typically doesn't bode well for coming returns on capital.

    The layoffs presumably reflect the fact that those excess workers no longer are growing the company, and the expense of employing them has become greater than the marginal income they bring.

    Think about it that way, and the "stock buyback" vs. "layoffs" thing is not a dichotomy. They both accomplish the same thing for the owners of the company (who want a return on their capital). They are laying off people on the hope that it will increase profitability, and increase the value of each owner's stake in the company. They buyback stock, because it increases the stake each shareholder owns in the company, making what they own more valuable.
     
    Azrael likes this.
  6. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member


    Understood.

    But also no comfort to anyone who just lost a job.
     
  7. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Nope. It sucks for those people.

    It was just a false dichotomy to me. Just as a small business owner, I could maybe employ an extra person, make the business less profitable as a result, and consequently make less myself from the business. But you wouldn’t expect me to do that probably.
     
    Azrael likes this.
  8. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    I wouldn't expect you to make such a bad decision.

    But these companies did.



    So the analogy works better if I say

    I'm going to misread the market - both long term and short term - for my product

    while hiring too many people to help me make it

    on the day I buy a Ferrari

    and repay the loan I took to start the business -

    which means I have to fire those people I just hired,

    because the bank gotta bank

    and because I'm not giving up that Ferrari.



    Headcount is always the simplest answer to shortsighted management.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2023
  9. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member


    see also

    What the Tech and Media Layoffs Are Really Telling Us About the Economy

    The final explanation is that chief executives are normal people who navigate uncertainty by copying behavior. We can’t rule out the possibility that five-digit tech layoffs are essentially acts of mimicry or social contagion among competitors. When all of your competitors are laying off 10 percent of their staff—and being rewarded by the market for it!—culling 10 percent of your workers may seem like the right or inevitable thing.

    “Was there a bubble in valuations? Absolutely,” the business professor Jeffrey Pfeffer told Stanford News. “Did Meta overhire? Probably. But is that why they are laying people off? Of course not. These companies are all making money. They are doing it because other companies are doing it
    .”
     
  10. Regan MacNeil

    Regan MacNeil Well-Known Member

    You wouldn't think FOMO would be a thing when it comes to ruining the lives of thousands of people, but most people aren't sociopathic vultures like the average CEO.
     
  11. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Sorry, but "They are all making money" is lemonade stand analysis.

    That whole thing was silly, frankly. We are in a rising rate environment for the first time in forever (and off the world having gotten addicted to zero funding costs), and it doesn't portend well for business. Those companies actually held off on these layoffs even as their businesses have all 1) seen earnings decline, and 2) the valuations of their companies have gotten slaughtered.

    I'm sorry, Google (the announcement this morning) is not laying off people because of that claptrap. It is selling way fewer ads than it was and its business has slowed down a lot. It's exactly what it looks like. In Q3, Google reported its slowest revenue growth in a decade. YouTube ad revenue declined for the first time ever. The company's earnings dropped by $6 billion. And things have likely only gotten worse since then (they report full year results in 2 weeks), and right now are probably looking bad to the extent they can project beyond.

    Earnings are declining for all of those companies. What these layoffs are telling us about the economy is pretty straightforward. When the pandemic hit, they unleashed a monetary tsunami that created the exact opposite of what should have happened when everything shut down. Demand for the digital services that these companies offer exploded on the back of the "stimulus." And each of those companies hired tens of thousands of people, as a result of the skewed signals the artificiality gave them.

    The boom that monetary / fiscal injection spurred was an unprecendented thing, and we are now getting a corresponding bust (as always happens). That boom-bust cycle is happening incredibly fast, because the amount of "stimulus" was massive, so the whole thing is now like a roller coaster that went up steeply, and is now entering the precipitous drop off the top.

    At this point, those companies are basically back to earning what they had been prior to hiring tens of thousands of workers to meet that stimulative demand. And even with these layoffs, they still will have more workers than they did prior to all of the hiring they did. They all held off on doing these layoff, even as their business dropped off, because nobody wants to hire tens of thousands of people and have to get rid of them that quickly.

     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2023
    Azrael likes this.
  12. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member


    Gotta read the whole piece.

    It mentions all that.
     
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