Running 2022-23 NCAA Basketball Thread

Still better than what they had immediately before and long after.

 

Flubbing the replacement does not always mean the previous coach should have stayed. If anything N.C. State was remarkably patient keeping him on after he missed the NCAAs in each of his first five seasons.

 

26-54 in his first five seasons at State; 46-34 in his final five seasons before getting run out of town. Had conference records of 10-6 and 11-5 during those final five seasons; State hasn't had a conference winning percentage that high since then. (Decent chance to change that this year, however.) Nowadays he wouldn't get the chance to have those second five years.

 

No. Just no.

Herb Sendek was really picking up the pieces. He came in after Les Robinson absorbed the aftereffects of Jim Valvano. Les is a world-class nice guy, but was clamped down by reinforced academic standards put in place to make sure more sketchy players weren't recruited.

Sendek was perfect, even though the idiots in the Wolfpack Club were too stupid to see it and didn't support him. Cared about how the kids worked in the classroom, knew how to put a program together and needed to do so from basically scratch. That was a big reason the record the first five seasons was not pretty. Either someone needed time, or the job - even moreso than most D-I jobs - was going to turn into a hire-to-be-fired scenario every 4-5 seasons.

If that doesn't help explain why the first five seasons were not the stuff of legend, then I cannot help you. Go back and look at Mike Kryzyewski's second and third seasons in Durham after getting the last of Bill Foster's recruits into the NCAAs his first season at Duke. Didn't happen overnight. Dean Smith was freaking hung in effigy in Chapel Hill. Didn't happen overnight after he took over from Frank McGuire.

Back to Sendek: Five consecutive seasons in the NCAAs? Every kid who stayed in the program for at least four seasons leaves with a degree? Given what this program has seen the last 15 years - and I know you remember the immortal Mark Gottfried, Dixie - yeah that is a "phenomenon."

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(Congrats to frantic, UNCGrad and the others. Cannot send anyone to the line that much and expect better results. A perfect example for why still knowing how to hit free throws counts, kids.)

 

I found last night's win hard to enjoy given what happened to Terquavion Smith. I don't think Leaky did anything intentional, just an incredibly unfortunate play. But still.

As for Sendek, you are of course dead on. I thought he did a phenomenal job at State given where the program was under Les Robinson. A lot of time has passed, but my memory of that time was that most of the criticism was about the style of basketball he coached being boring more than specific win-loss records. I know the losses to Carolina and Duke were an issue.

I was always perplexed and amused by the vitriol some State fans had for him. Having grown up in the midwest I also appreciated the way his teams played, FWIW. Sendek probably always belonged in the Big Ten.

 

Herb had no personality. That's a crime for anybody after Valvano.
It's a tough job and a uniquely tough job. It's not merely second fiddle in its state. It's third fiddle in its own region because the top two are among the top five in the country. Its arena is off campus. Etc.

 

Leaky Black was trying to stop Smith, but in no way, shape or form was he intentionally trying to hurt him. The Flagrant 2 was an overreaction. If you saw Black's body language while the medical sorts were working on Smith, it was obvious that he was concerned. He also asked NCSU officials for Smith's number so he could reach out. Thank goodness NCSU cooperated. Can only hope that something stupid doesn't fan flames that don't exist.

Nasty play, but far from intentional.

Yes, Sendek was blasted for playing a Princeton-style offense. Rarely worked perfectly, but usually worked well enough, emphasized good passers and shooters and won plenty. On the occasion when the offense worked really well, unstoppable. But because it wasn't an up-and-down the floor kind of game, the folks too worried about style points to stop long enough to notice that it was usually working started whining. Just ... a stupid fight to start.

As for the losses to the other Triangle schools, name a coach not named Gary Williams who were beating either of them more than occasionally during those years. Worry about winning in general, and stop worrying about what's going on next door.

Guess who tried to tell them the ESA was a bad idea for the men's basketball program? Sendek. Did not say anything to the media until years after he left for Tempe.

Could have made a big stink about it while he was still in Raleigh, and in this D-I fishbowl, it could have turned into a serious mess. Said nothing ... probably because NCSU athletics was convinced the ESA was a chance to have a place about the size of the Dean Dome to call home. Problem is, the only time it's full is for games against Duke and Chapel Hill. And then an arena that is usually overloaded with red has a lot of blue in it. Whoops.

Sendek was correct. While the Carolina Hurricanes can make the ESA rock during a playoff run, NCSU can turn Reynolds Coliseum into a serious home-court advantage when it wanted to. But don't dare tell the Wolfpack Club or anyone else who of course know better ... just ask them.

I'm not sure that Sendek had no personality, but he wasn't a larger-than-life sort like Valvano. Problem is, IMO, trying to drum up a personality that wasn't true to him would have been much worse than to be who he really is, which is a smart, thoughtful, generally quiet and decent man. What a freaking crime. (Aimed at those who think that's a problem, not tapintoamerica ... he's correct, but it's no crime.)

 

Sometimes people get attached to coaches no matter what the records show. No lie, I have a couple of friends still convinced Alabama did Mike Shula dirty and he could have turned the corner with a little more time.

Sendek did technically resign to go to ASU on his own. Was it a Bill Curry situation where he was bailing out one step ahead of the angry mob or would he have still had a job at N.C. State? Time and distance have dulled my memory on that point.

 

It was one step ahead of the angry, ungrateful sorts. Lee Fowler supported him from the moment he got to Raleigh - against the wishes of plenty who wanted Fowler to make a quick change.

Nowhere in here am I claiming that he would have done what Mike Krzyzewski did at Duke ... but look at what has occurred since. Careful what you wish for.

 

That goes back to my original point. Hiring a new coach is a separate decision free from moving on from an old coach.

Mark Richt gave 15 years to Georgia and had a pair of SEC titles and nine 10-win seasons. Went 9-3 the season he was fired. But Georgia decided it wanted more and was capable of more and went after Kirby Smart.

I hated the decision to fire Richt, but it is hard for me to say now that UGA made a bad choice.

 

There's a hindsight element to this. No question.

Thing is, Georgia gambled and got Kirby Smart. Paid off handsomely. It was a little bit of knowing what it had, and a lot of identifying the correct coach.

NCSU went for John Calipari and Rick Barnes because self-delusion. Had zero clue of what it didn't have. When you're that unaware, chasing off a coach who was getting what Sendek did makes you look even more foolish. Cal used what went down to get a fat extension from Memphis, and Barnes wasn't leaving Austin. So it was Sidney Lowe, who cared, was "one of their own" and managed to recruit a little, but couldn't win. Then Mark Gottfried ... and I know you know how that ended.

Kevin Keatts still has a chance, and has shown signs of turning the corner. In his defense, this is the first season Keatts has had not having the Dennis Smith Jr. mess hanging over the program's head (which was done by Gottfried and his staff).

 

Sometimes you go straight from firing the wrong coach to hiring the right one (Richt-Smart).

Sometimes it takes twists and turns that can seem to take forever (Fulmer-Kiffin-Dooley-Jones-Pruitt-Heupel).

In two decades, Nebraska football still hasn't done it, although it can be debated whether Solich was the "wrong"coach for them.