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The Economy

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by TigerVols, May 14, 2020.

  1. Regan MacNeil

    Regan MacNeil Well-Known Member

    I mean, just think of the heart attacks you'd induce by suggesting the removal of Greater Fools from the marketplace.
     
  2. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    Now that I think of it, I might prefer they stay in there ... I have some trades I think they might find attractive.
     
  3. justgladtobehere

    justgladtobehere Well-Known Member

    Why it in particular? The company runs a book and is about to enter another state when Massachusetts starts mobile betting.
     
  4. Inky_Wretch

    Inky_Wretch Well-Known Member

    Just pondering about the reason for the layoffs.
     
  5. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Financial conditions right now are looser than they were when the Fed began its "tightening." After yesterday's performance by Jay Powell. ... it gave people the greenlight again. He signaled that he is Arthur Burns, not Paul Volcker.

    I completely understand why someone would pile into Facebook stock based on the buyback-triggered change to EPS in that kind of environment. It's not an "investment decision" in the Graham and Dodd sense of investment. But when liquidity is being artificially pumped into markets and it is creating financial conditions that heavily favor rampant speculative behavior, it's actually pretty rational to run with it. It's been a "strategy" for more than a decade that has made a lot of money for people.

    The fact that it eventually won't end well for SOMEONE (duh) doesn't change the fact that you have a few choices today: 1) Follow the money flows, a strategy that has worked pretty well in a cheap money environment, 2) Sit on the sidelines (and lose money in real terms) or 3) Fight reality and get run over.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2023
  6. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Just to add to that, @doctorquant

    By any "investment decision" metric, Facebook's stock is still historically very expensive. If you were doing any kind of fundamental analysis, you would not see value there. But earnings don't drive stock prices in this kind of environment. Money flows do, due to the distortions.

    They just announced that despite the stock being super expensive (it is well off a peak and it is still expensive), they are making themselves a forced buyer of it. And not just a forced buyer of it, but they are introducing so much demand for their stock (from themselves) that it is going to put a floor under the price of the stock. I think the people who see that and go long the stock (with that kind of risk - reward profile) are being fairly rational.

    We can have a conversation about how fucked up it is that financial conditions are being manipulated to create an environment like that; where the thing that it makes the most sense for Facebook to do with its cash is those buybacks despite the stock being so expensive. There is a financial crisis at the end of the road because of it. And it's obviously a small example of the kinds of misallocation of capital the monetary manipulation spurs.

    It could lead to big losses for people if anything about the monetary environment (the obvious being a credit-induced accident) changes abruply.

    But the speculative behavior itself is perfectly rational in this kind of environment. It's paid well for people for too long and there is a lot of muscle memory.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2023
  7. Twirling Time

    Twirling Time Well-Known Member

    Corporations increasingly view the help as a liability and not an asset.
     
  8. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    Russia invading Ukraine would seem to me the absolute definition of a 'windfall.'

    And yet.

    Calls for bigger windfall tax after Shell makes ‘obscene’ $40bn profit

    Sawan announced a boost in payouts to shareholders, with a 15% increase in the final quarter dividend to $6.3bn.

    He also announced $4bn of share buybacks over the next three months. In total, Shell distributed $26bn to shareholders in 2022.
     
  9. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Because taxation shouldn't be a necessary evil, in which our government has to force people to hand over a part of their income to pay for vital public goods that don't get provided for otherwise, due to a free rider problem.

    We are at the stage, where taxation (a "windfall" tax) becomes a tool to punish others based on populist rhetoric.
     
    Azrael likes this.
  10. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member


    Well, it's the UK, but I can see the "populist" point that people are struggling to heat their homes while Shell leadership is ordering more platinum bidets for the Executive washroom.

    All thanks to Vladimir Putin.


    The government is under pressure to rethink its windfall tax on energy companies after Shell reported one of the largest profits in UK corporate history, with the surge in energy prices sparked by Russia’s invasion of Ukraine pushing the oil company’s annual takings to $40bn (£32bn).

    Opposition parties and trade unions described Shell’s bonanza, the biggest in its 115 year history, as “outrageous” and accused Rishi Sunak of letting fossil fuel companies “off the hook”.

    On Thursday, the UK headquartered company confirmed it had paid just $134m in British windfall taxes during 2022. It paid $520m under the EU “solidarity contribution” – Europe’s equivalent of the windfall tax.

    The company was criticised in October when it said it had paid no UK windfall tax up to that point, but on Wednesday said it was likely to contribute $500m in 2023.


    and

    Nowak said windfall taxes should be increased. “As households up and down Britain struggle to pay their bills and make ends meet, Shell are enjoying a cash bonanza. The time for excuses is over. The government must impose a larger windfall tax on energy companies. Billions are being left on the table,” he said.

    “Instead of holding down the pay of paramedics, teachers, firefighters and millions of other hard-pressed public servants, ministers should be making big 0il and gas pay their fair share.”
     
  11. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    The inflation rate in the UK is still 8 percent. Last year, the cost of FOOD in the UK jumped close to 17 percent (not a typo). This goes beyond Putin and Ukraine.

    But if people want to turn their pitchforks somewhere, it would be a lot more productive for them to start by looking toward Andrew Bailey, not Shell (or any other company involved in voluntary exchange with people).
     
  12. doctorquant

    doctorquant Well-Known Member

    I remember being at a dinner party many, many moons ago and one of the guys there -- a photographer from my newspaper days -- was going on and on about all these "windfalls" and how it was immoral they weren't being taxed more heavily. Then about an hour later he happily noted that the market value of his home had shot up something like 40% the previous year, but oddly enough he wasn't so sanguine about the property tax increases he was facing.
     
    Azrael likes this.
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