RIP Jimmy Carter

[The Big Ragu]

The Carters helped secure her release on parole when he became president, hired her to serve as Amy's nanny in the White House and eventually was able to help secure her pardon when she became eligible (under Georgia law, you can't petition the pardon board for a pardon until you've been on supervised release for five years). She later relocated near Plains, lived near the Carters and babysat (and maybe still babysits) their grandchildren. I looked into her story because you mentioned she had a life sentence but the picture was taken at the WH and not the governor's mansion so something seemed off.

Is there a little bit of the servant/master dynamic going on? Maybe? But based on his life's work, I'd say Carter deserves a little more benefit of the doubt than if it were Lester Maddox or Herman Talmadge. Still, you do have company -- Black Liberation Army member and convicted cop-killer Assata Shakur apparently expressed a similar take on the Carter-Prince relationship in her autobiography, which I'm sure is a must-read.

Just to qualify: I didn't interpret you personally as espousing that viewpoint. I'm just giving some pushback on it.

I don't espouse an absolutist viewpoint when it comes to Jimmy Carter. ... well, other than he was a shirtty president. As a person, he was not the complete skunk of a human being that Donald Trump and Richard Nixon were (looking at presidents during my lifetime), but like almost every holier-than-thou type I have ever come across, I do believe that he was a completely self-serving phony who did a ton of things to cultivate a semi-fraudulent image (which he milked into the presidency in the wake of a country that was tired because of Richard Nixon). And I wouldn't be surprised if the Mary Prince stories at the time were cultivated the same way that a lot of stories about Jimmy Carter were.

I doubt Mary Prince is babysitting the Carters' grandchildren today, given that they are all in their 30s or 40s, I believe. But my guess would be that the Carters were legitimately fond of Mary Prince. Amy Carter adored her from stuff I was reading, and I would bet that the Carters genuinely wanted to help her. I am sure they did take care of her throughout her life, and I am sure it went beyond the play that he got from being the benevolent saint who rescued her from prison.

I was just pointing out that people craft narratives around things, and because it is Jimmy Carter, I was guessing some people who I am certain are itching to create a slave master narrative around that set of facts instead add it to the Jimmy Carter hagiography.

 

[Woody Long]

I don't espouse an absolutist viewpoint when it comes to Jimmy Carter. ... well, other than he was a shirtty president. As a person, he was not the complete skunk of a human being that Donald Trump and Richard Nixon were (looking at presidents during my lifetime), but like almost every holier-than-thou type I have ever come across, I do believe that he was a completely self-serving phony who did a ton of things to cultivate a semi-fraudulent image (which he milked into the presidency in the wake of a country that was tired because of Richard Nixon). And I wouldn't be surprised if the Mary Prince stories at the time were cultivated the same way that a lot of stories about Jimmy Carter were.

The guy founded Habitat for Humanity and continued to volunteer to help to build houses and taught Sunday school into his 90s. But if you want to go with "he was a self-serving phony who did a ton of things to cultivate a semi-fraudulent image," you do you.

 

[The Big Ragu]

He didn't found Habitat for Humanity.

But you are correct about him using his status as an ex president to raise a ton of money for Habitat for Humanity, and that he was personally involved in Habitat for Humanity projects every year for years. There were no shortage of cameras documenting it all.

 

[Regan MacNeil]

Being an edgelord must be exhausting.

 

[Webster]

He didn't found Habitat for Humanity.

But you are correct about him using his status as an ex president to raise a ton of money for Habitat for Humanity, and that he was personally involved in Habitat for Humanity projects every year for years. There were no shortage of cameras documenting it all.

Did he run over your puppy? He did a tremendous amount of good in his post-Presidential career and your response is that he seemed like a publicity seeker? If so, then he was a publicity seeker who did a tremendous amount of good.

 

[Spartan Squad]

Post Presidency:

Reagan: Alzheimer's kept him out of the light but conservatives have created a mythical image that he never was.
Bush I: Largely ignored. People loved Barbara more.
Clinton: (Some) People couldn't be rid of the Clintons fast enough.
Bush II: Lovable oaf.
Obama: Better campaigner than president.
Trump: Death of democracy.

Carter: That sumbitch did Habitat for Humanity with cameras around.

I mean, if that's the best you got ...

 

[The Big Ragu]

Did he run over your puppy? He did a tremendous amount of good in his post-Presidential career and your response is that he seemed like a publicity seeker? If so, then he was a publicity seeker who did a tremendous amount of good.

No, he's not simply a publicity seeker. He has used his status as an ex president to lend his name to a lot of very charitable causes. As much as any ex president has. He also lent his name to a lot of dictators for reasons that never made much sense to me, FWIW.

Being an ex president for 40+ years afforded him the ability with which to craft a legacy. ... and I do think he was very invested in doing just that. It doesn't take away from any good causes he lent his name to or make him building homes for habitat for humanity into a bad thing. I also suspect most of what Jimmy Carter did was self serving, and by the time he was an ex president, all that was left for him was cultivating an image that would rehabilitate a failed presidency. There were way too many accounts of him when he was a governor and president of being a phony populist who made a show of things to cultivate the simple, everyman, pious image, but who was often not that guy in private. From reporters who dealt with him, from legislators who couldn't stand him, even in that book with secret service agents talking anonymously about the presidents they protected, which everyone was quick to try to discredit because it said he was a phony.

I think Jimmy Carter sold bullshirt to a public that had buyers remorse when it got a taste of the hubris that characterized his actual term in office, and he got voted out after one term. I highly doubt he became a different person when he was out of office, even if being an ex president makes anyone except Donald Trump into a beloved figure.

 

[swingline]

Jimmy Carter couldn't hit a curveball. What a bum.

 

[The Big Ragu]

Jimmy Carter couldn't hit a curveball. What a bum.

There's that too!

 

[Webster]

"I also suspect" carrying a lot weight.

 

[garrow]

Carter is also the only POTUS (aside from those who served less time than him) to have never had a SCOTUS vacancy. That is a raw deal in terms of shaping his legacy. Look, Ford served 2+ years and had a vacancy to fill during his term. Nixon had four in 5 years. Carter did appoint RBG to the federal bench though......

 

[The Big Ragu]

"I also suspect" carrying a lot weight.

This was a contemporaneous account of Jimmy Carter (his run for the presidency; the book isn't just about Carter, but he was the main player), not the 2023 hagiography. It's not very flattering -- factually, not things anyone suspects. It just gave the reality of Jimmy Carter at the time, and Reeves labeled him a phony, actor and a salesman.

Take "I also suspect" for whatever you want. It's all any of us have on the true character of Jimmy Carter. But there a lot of accounts of what he was really like as governor of Georgia and president, and if there is any truth to him being a phony populist (who actually buried his presidency as a result of it, because he alienated so many people who had to deal wiht him), like I said, I suspect that he didn't become a completely different person when he settled into the life of an ex president.