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Muh Muh Muh My Corona (virus)

Discussion in 'Sports and News' started by Twirling Time, Jan 21, 2020.

  1. Inky_Wretch

    Inky_Wretch Well-Known Member

    If the next pandemic hits when a Democrat is POTUS, we'll have MAGAs out there intentionally trying to get it to pwn the libs.
     
  2. Machine Head

    Machine Head Well-Known Member

    My good sir!

    Country over party it will be!
     
  3. The Big Ragu

    The Big Ragu Moderator Staff Member

    Honestly, it wasn't just that. In January, 2021, New York magazine had a piece theorizing about how it could have been a lab leak. It was REALLY well done. The writer talked to virologists and scientists who were familiar with how serial passaging of viruses works in labs like the one in Wuhan, and he also talked to a scientist who had been sounding the alarm on that particular lab well before this virus hit the world.

    I got some strong responses from some people who were posting a lot on this thread at the time when I suggested that even though there was no evidence that it had been a virus that had been manipulated in a lab as opposed to a zoonotic leap, it certainly was POSSIBLE. And for me, it actually was really suspicious that the first spread had occurred in the backyard of the only level 4 virology lab in China, which was doing research on coronaviruses, and apparently was experimenting on what was probably the closest relative (a bat virus) to the virus that was spreading. So it was certainly at least POSSIBLE that a viral chimera had leaked from that lab, likely unintentionally, as an accident. And I had someone trying to ridicule me and claiming over and over again that it had been PROVEN that it had been a zoonatic leap, no matter how patiently I was trying to explain that that was just not true (and explaining why).

    Donald Trump's stupidity was one thing. But the big problem was that the scientific community kind of battened down the hatches in an almost defensive way (taking out ads in newspapers, publishing journal pieces that were nothing more than their OPINIONS), trying to convince people that there was no way the virus coudn't have mutated naturally. But anyone who took the time to try to understand what they ACTUALLY knew and didn't know, had the ability to realize that there was no way to know at that point WHAT the origin of the virus was. It could have evolved in nature and leaped to humans. BUT, it also could have been the result of serial passaging in a lab. There was no way to know from just the sequence of the virus.

    I was finding myself being shouted at people (on here and off. ... on here there are several pages of me trying to discuss it and getting some really dismissive responses) as a conspiracy theorist, when all I was trying to do was look at it empirically rather than creating a narrative and insisting that the narrative was true.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2023
    Azrael likes this.
  4. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    Again,

    wuhan leak - Google Search
     
  5. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    Nicholson Baker.

    January 2021.

    https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/coronavirus-lab-escape-theory.html
     
  6. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    As I said, these are the kind of stories being knocked down at the time.

    Tom Cotton.

    Senator Tom Cotton Repeats Fringe Theory of Coronavirus Origins (Published 2020)

    The rumor appeared shortly after the new coronavirus struck China and spread almost as quickly: that the outbreak now afflicting people around the world had been manufactured by the Chinese government.

    The conspiracy theory lacks evidence and has been dismissed by scientists. But it has gained an audience with the help of well-connected critics of the Chinese government such as Stephen K. Bannon, President Trump’s former chief strategist. And on Sunday, it got its biggest public boost yet.

    Speaking on Fox News, Senator Tom Cotton, Republican of Arkansas, raised the possibility that the virus had originated in a high-security biochemical lab in Wuhan, the Chinese city at the center of the outbreak.

    “We don’t have evidence that this disease originated there,” the senator said, “but because of China’s duplicity and dishonesty from the beginning, we need to at least ask the question to see what the evidence says, and China right now is not giving evidence on that question at all.”

    Mr. Cotton later walked back the idea that the coronavirus was a Chinese bioweapon run amok.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2023
  7. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

  8. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

    hmmm

    FBI director endorses theory Covid-19 virus may have leaked from Chinese lab

    Christopher Wray, the FBI director, has weighed in on the debate over the origins of the Covid-19 virus, using an appearance on Fox News to endorse the theory that the virus potentially originated from a leak in a Chinese laboratory.

    “The FBI has for quite some time now assessed that the origins of the pandemic are most likely a potential lab incident in Wuhan,” Wray told Fox News’ Brett Baier, adding that the assessment was based on research the agency’s analysts, including scientists, had conducted and that “our work related to this continues”.

    Wray’s high-profile public comment highlights the divide within the US intelligence community about the origins of the pandemic, with some federal agencies, including the FBI and the Department of Energy, concluding that the Covid-19 virus likely originated from a lab leak in China, while others have concluded that it first spread from infected animals to humans.

    Wray’s public endorsement of the lab leak theory runs counter to the conclusions of several prominent scientific studies, as well as the assessments of some other US intelligence agencies. Wray did not explain the evidence that had informed the FBI’s conclusion. “There’s not a whole lot of details I can share that aren’t classified,” he said.
     
  9. Azrael

    Azrael Well-Known Member

  10. Neutral Corner

    Neutral Corner Well-Known Member

    Part of the problem is the lack of information both early in the pandemic and continuing to date, caused by China's reflexive withholding of information about anything that makes China look bad on the world stage. I really don't care how hard China scoffs unless they want to put out solid scientific information to back up their contention, which may not be accurate even now.

    The Tom Cotton/Steve Bannon story highlighted above is exactly the sort of thing I was talking about. One, we lack the data to really come to a firm conclusion as to the origin of Covid. Two, given the Trump Administration's endless bullshit and gaslighting, it became difficult to accept explanations that supported his political assertions. Wray coming out to support the lab theory in this moment makes his assertion somewhat suspect given any number of instances of FBI support of Trump and of footdragging on their part regarding investigation of his circle, and Wray's announcement that they have evidence for the lab theory that he is not at liberty to disclose may well be true but it remains unsupported.

    Certainly this is politics affecting what should be a matter of science coming to the best available conclusion based on the known facts - but many of the facts are disputed by both sides, and given the massive politicization of the subject you can find experts who are all in for either theory. We may well never know the root cause definitively.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2023
    OscarMadison and Azrael like this.
  11. Michael_ Gee

    Michael_ Gee Well-Known Member

    The obvious question in response to Wray's statement he has evidence he can't disclose is "did you disclose it to the other agencies who disagree with your agency's conclusion?," followed by, "if not, why not?" or "if so, why do you think they continue to disagree with your agency?" Not that that would happen on Fox, but it's pretty basic stuff.
     
    Neutral Corner likes this.
  12. Alma

    Alma Well-Known Member

    I stand by what I wrote. To pretend rigor has accompanied all points of view all along is silly. A journalist at the LA Times can call the lab leak hypothesis a "zombie theory" - and get away with it - because it is acceptable to consider the lab leak a made-up conspiracy.
     
    Azrael likes this.
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